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Old 03-13-2008, 12:53 PM   #1
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The OFFICIAL Yankee-Haters Thread (sticky?)

Ok, so I had to. Especially given these two threads:

http://www.sprintusers.com/forum/sho...=68132&page=10
and
http://www.sprintusers.com/forum/sho...=157346&page=8

Then I read the following article last night, and this is spring freaking training. Let the hating begin...

3 players, 2 coaches ejected in Yanks-Rays game

Associated Press
Updated: March 12, 2008, 9:15 PM EST
ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. (AP) - So much for the notion that the New York Yankees and Tampa Bay Rays could settle a gripe without fighting.

Meeting only days after New York manager Joe Girardi complained about Tampa Bay's aggressive play in spring training after one of his players was injured in a home-plate collision, the Yankees brought some attitude of their own into a testy rematch Wednesday.

The bad blood between the Yanks and Rays was evident Wednesday. (Gene J. Puskar / Associated Press)

Shelley Duncan's hard slide into second base with his spikes raised sparked a bench-clearing scrum that resulted in two players and two coaches being ejected during the second inning of Tampa Bay's 7-6 victory.

Duncan, who had hinted at the prospect of retaliating for the Rays' Elliot Johnson barreling over New York catcher Francisco Cervelli last Saturday, spiked second baseman Akinori Iwamura in the right thigh and was immediately tossed.

Tampa Bay's Jonny Gomes was ejected, too, after racing in from right field and ramming into Duncan as other players poured onto the field.

Girardi called the home-plate collision in the first game between the AL East rivals unnecessary. This time it was Tampa Bay manager Joe Maddon's turn to denounce rough play not normally associated with exhibition games.

"In Tampa, that play you saw at home plate was a good, hard baseball play. What you saw today was the definition of a dirty play," Maddon said. "There's no room for that in our game. It's contemptable. It's wrong. It's borderline criminal, and I could not believe they did that."

Among New York players, Duncan was the most vocal in his criticism of the collision that broke Cervelli's right wrist, sidelining the Yankees prospect for eight to 10 weeks and triggering a debate over what's fair play in spring training.

The Yankees first baseman insisted he was not trying to injure Iwamura.

"I'm pretty sure the spikes weren't that high. They were pretty much going straight at the glove," Duncan said. "I've done it before. Never had a reaction like that."

Duncan's hard grounder glanced off third baseman Evan Longoria's glove for an error and rolled up the line in foul territory. Duncan rounded first and hesitated before taking off for second - a move the Rays perceived as conclusive evidence he had ill intentions.

Longoria's throw to Iwamura beat the runner by at least 10 feet, but Duncan went into the bag hard anyway.

"No question that was a blatant attempt to hurt Aki," Maddon said. "It was set up. It was planned. It was premeditated. It's all the above. I don't know what the difference is between that and a high stick in hockey. But it was that bad."

Yankees third base coach Bobby Meacham and hitting coach Kevin Long also were ejected by the umpires, who met with Girardi and Maddon before the game. Crew chief Jerry Crawford had no comment afterward.

New York left-hander Heath Phillips was ejected in the first inning after one of his pitches appeared to graze Longoria's shirt. The Rays already had two runs and three hits in the inning.

"What happened the other day set the tone, showing us how hard they're going to play. You see their intensity level, you try to match it," Duncan said. "We need to wake up a little bit. We need to play hard as well."

Girardi, criticized by former Yankees bench coach and current Rays senior adviser Don Zimmer for comments the New York manager made after Saturday's game, was unapologetic, adding that he would have to see a replay to determine if the play was dirty.

"You don't ever want things to get ugly, and I don't think it got ugly. I think the umpires stopped it before it got ugly," Girardi said.

"Shelley told me that he was taught when you're going to be out, you go after the ball. ... Shelley made a hard, aggressive slide, and I would have to look at a replay to really determine what I thought."

Gomes' view from right field was different.

The 225-pound slugger took off as soon as Duncan slid into Iwamura. He knocked Duncan back a few feet, and the Yankees first baseman held his hands up as if to ask: "What did I do?"

"I wasn't really trying to get a shot in on him. I probably could have done a lot of things worse," Gomes said. "But it is a baseball field, and there are fans and kids watching."

Duncan said he was baffled by the benches clearing. Gomes wasn't buying it.

"He did what he said he was going to do," the Rays outfielder said.

The teams play again in a split-squad game Saturday in Tampa.

Once again, Girardi said he doesn't expect any carry-over. The Rays, who will face the Yankees 18 times during the regular season, aren't so sure.

"It's going to be kind of hard for it not to," Tampa Bay's B.J. Upton said.

"When we go out and play the Yankees the next time, we're going to play it hard and play it right. Period," Maddon said. "That's how we come to the ballpark every day."

Spring training brawls are rare, but there was one at the same ballpark in 1987 after Boston pitcher Al Nipper hit Mets slugger Darryl Strawberry with a pitch - payback for Strawberry's slow home run trot in Game 7 of the 1986 World Series.

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Old 03-13-2008, 05:27 PM   #2
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With those two given threads, why couldn't you just post it there? You know...keep all the hating together

Also, bad plays happen.....benches clear....brawls sometimes happen......it doesn't just happen with the Yankees.....in fact, the Rays have had fueds with about 4 other teams that I can think of, INCLUDING the Red Sox, Orioles, and Blue Jays.....ALL of their East Coast rivals.......It's baseball.....are we gonna start an OFFICIAL <insert team name> hater's thread every time that happens? I'm saying this both as a Yankee fan, and as a Baseball fan. For it to happen in Spring Training is bad, since it's not for any titles or anything, and you don't want to be injuring anyone before the season starts(hence the Yankees problem with going hard into home plate)....but it's unfortunately a part of the game, and we have to live with it.
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Old 03-13-2008, 05:48 PM   #3
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Yeah we could, but I saw a trend developing. I thought we could archive throughout the season the reasons supporting why the Yankees are the "evil empire".

I do agree that going hard to the plate may be uncalled for in spring training, but is very much within the legal and proper rules of the game. And it's a minor leauger (Elliot Johnson) trying to make a name for himself and land a spot in the bigs.
Then on the other hand you have a player (Shelley Duncan) saying he's going to go out and do something, and then pull a DIRTY stunt like that. I think anyone would agree that sliding in cleats high like that is wrong and he intended to hurt someone. It was very obviously premeditated, cheap and dirty.

No, we do not need to start an "OFFICIAL <insert team name> hater's thread" every time this happens. I'm just saying that there are certain organizations, be it businesses or sports clubs, that have a dastardly culture from the top (Hank) to the bottom.
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Old 03-13-2008, 05:55 PM   #4
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People pull DIRTY plays all the time in defense of their players. How many times have you seen players beaned because someone did something to one of their players. Again, it happens with EVERY team. Nobody is immune to it. I just love how everyone is so quick to hate on the Yankees, because it seems to be the cool thing to do. I myself am not a big fan of Hank either....but it is what it is.....Why put down the entire team because their owner is an ass......

Just like any other team in the major leagues, it's 26 players going out there with one common goal....to win games, and ultimately win a championship.....
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Old 03-13-2008, 06:03 PM   #5
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Let me get this straight. In an exhibition game a Tampa Ray player barrels into a rookie catcher and breaks his wrist. The next meeting a Yankee slides into second base hard, playing old time baseball.

The Rays right fielder, I will say this again, the RIGHT FIELDER comes in from the outfield and starts a fight with the Yankee player that slid into second base. Both players are thrown out. It then breaks into a bench clearing brawl. And this is all the Yankees fault?

I'm sorry but thats baseball. All the other teams have ***** envy of the Yankees. Manny grew up in the Bronx and can not stand the fact that the Yankees never wanted him.

Not matter all the trash that is thrown about, the Yankees are the biggest draw, the most successful, and the most recognized team in sports. Take a chill pill and live with it.
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Old 03-13-2008, 06:09 PM   #6
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Quote:
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Let me get this straight. In an exhibition game a Tampa Ray player barrels into a rookie catcher and breaks his wrist. The next meeting a Yankee slides into second base hard, playing old time baseball.

The Rays right fielder, I will say this again, the RIGHT FIELDER comes in from the outfield and starts a fight with the Yankee player that slid into second base. Both players are thrown out. It then breaks into a bench clearing brawl. And this is all the Yankees fault?

I'm sorry but thats baseball. All the other teams have ***** envy of the Yankees. Manny grew up in the Bronx and can not stand the fact that the Yankees never wanted him.

Not matter all the trash that is thrown about, the Yankees are the biggest draw, the most successful, and the most recognized team in sports. Take a chill pill and live with it.
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Old 03-13-2008, 07:21 PM   #7
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Shelley Duncan knew he was out. He wasn't breaking up a double play so there was no need for a hard slide. He's either a retard that doesn't know how to slide or just another "dirty player". I don't know about you guys but if someone almost cleated me in the nuts they would have hell to pay. Not sure how you can compare the hard slide into second base to home plate but then again that's a yankee fan for ya.
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Old 03-13-2008, 07:35 PM   #8
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I'm actually not comparing anything to anything......I'm just saying that it happens EVERYWHERE in baseball....not just with the Yankees......it's just that people are always so quick to jump on the "I hate the Yankees" bandwagon.....Let me ask the question this way.....

If this same incident happened in a Rangers/Angels spring training game, would anyone be running in here to start an "OFFICIAL Rangers/Angels Haters thread"? I don't think so.....
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Old 03-13-2008, 07:37 PM   #9
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Shelley Duncan was out by 5 feet and he wasn't breaking up a double play. There was no need for a hard slide. He's either a retard that doesn't know how to slide or just another "dirty player". I don't know about you guys but if someone almost cleated me in the nuts they would have hell to pay. Not sure how you can compare the hard slide into second base to home plate but then again that's a yankee fan for ya.
Video


No fight broke out on that play. It was Johnny Gomes who came in from right field and started the brawl. I played college ball and I actually played second base. You know as a second baseman you always expect the player to slide in hard and break up the play. I will say the slide was high, but again the second baseman had no objections.

As a base runner you are trained to do that, its instinct. The second baseman had no problem with the play. The fact of the matter is the right fielder came in to the infield and started the brawl. Whether I be a Yankee fan or not, thats what happened.

As a second baseman you are taught to throw the ball head high to first to make the player get out of the way. Is that an Evil Empire only play too?

If Gomes doesn't come in from the outfield, the play is over and thats the end of it. Don't blame it all on Duncan. The fact of the matter is that Gomes started the brawl.

Edit: After looking at the pic and the video again the second baseman should already have been out of there. Looks like he doesn't know how to make the phantom play! Ive seen harder plays in little league games lol
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Old 03-13-2008, 08:16 PM   #10
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Quote:
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No fight broke out on that play. It was Johnny Gomes who came in from right field and started the brawl. I played college ball and I actually played second base. You know as a second baseman you always expect the player to slide in hard and break up the play. I will say the slide was high, but again the second baseman had no objections.

As a base runner you are trained to do that, its instinct. The second baseman had no problem with the play. The fact of the matter is the right fielder came in to the infield and started the brawl. Whether I be a Yankee fan or not, thats what happened.

As a second baseman you are taught to throw the ball head high to first to make the player get out of the way. Is that an Evil Empire only play too?

If Gomes doesn't come in from the outfield, the play is over and thats the end of it. Don't blame it all on Duncan. The fact of the matter is that Gomes started the brawl.

Edit: After looking at the pic and the video again the second baseman should already have been out of there. Looks like he doesn't know how to make the phantom play! Ive seen harder plays in little league games lol
As a former shortstop and alternate second baseman, I gotta say, you hit this on the head.

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Old 03-13-2008, 08:35 PM   #11
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I have played baseball and I didn't really agree that the one player should have hit the yankee catcher. It is exhibition and it is not worth it to do it. It is not worth getting hurt in the game that doesn't really matter.

As for the slide at second. Probably wasnt a good idea but this is baseball and teams have to protect their other teammates. Like mentioned before this happens not just with yankees but with other teams as well.

It's the game of baseball and has happened in the past many times. I do agree it sometimes get to far with some teams.




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Old 03-13-2008, 10:14 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djvulcan View Post
No fight broke out on that play. It was Johnny Gomes who came in from right field and started the brawl. I played college ball and I actually played second base. You know as a second baseman you always expect the player to slide in hard and break up the play. I will say the slide was high, but again the second baseman had no objections.

As a base runner you are trained to do that, its instinct. The second baseman had no problem with the play. The fact of the matter is the right fielder came in to the infield and started the brawl. Whether I be a Yankee fan or not, thats what happened.

As a second baseman you are taught to throw the ball head high to first to make the player get out of the way. Is that an Evil Empire only play too?

If Gomes doesn't come in from the outfield, the play is over and thats the end of it. Don't blame it all on Duncan. The fact of the matter is that Gomes started the brawl.

Edit: After looking at the pic and the video again the second baseman should already have been out of there. Looks like he doesn't know how to make the phantom play! Ive seen harder plays in little league games lol
I disagree that the second basemen had no problem with the play. Just looking at the picture and seeing his mouth wide open makes me think that he's like "wow did he just do that". Then the video shows that the second baseman comes back to the base and points to his leg where Duncan slid into him. Two wrongs don't make it right but as you listen to the video Gomes did say that Duncan was going to hurt someone prior to the game. This could've been why Gomes did what he did. The fact of the matter is if Duncan doesn't slide over the base with his cleat up in the air there would be no brawl.
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Old 03-14-2008, 02:47 AM   #13
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Man Gomes is an idiot the rays had that coming after coming in hard on the catcher. I am a well know yankee hater but even I don't support fu(_King with peoples career overr a spring training game. i.e the broken wrist. It just isn't worth it. You should never wish bodily harm even or the worst yankee hahah Seriously though that play would have been over had Gomes not be an idiot I think he should be fined.
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Old 03-14-2008, 08:28 AM   #14
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Man Gomes is an idiot the rays had that coming after coming in hard on the catcher. I am a well know yankee hater but even I don't support fu(_King with peoples career overr a spring training game. i.e the broken wrist. It just isn't worth it. You should never wish bodily harm even or the worst yankee hahah Seriously though that play would have been over had Gomes not be an idiot I think he should be fined.



It's good to see that even a non-Yankee fan(and I know how hard that must have been for you ) can see what we're talking about......Thanks!
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Old 03-14-2008, 11:46 AM   #15
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You've got to be kidding me.

Point 1. I'm a hockey goalie, if I were to take a slapshot to the head in an exibition game and end up with a concussion, I would have NO room to complain. It's part of the position, part of the sport. If Cervelli broke his wrist playing his postion, maybe he's too delicate for Major League Baseball? Granted a hard play at the plate may be uncalled for as this contradicts the spirit of spring training. But you have a minor leauger who desperately wants a job, this is the same reason there are so many fights in minor league hockey. Players are trying to show their brass, impress the coaches, and land a job.

Point 2. Why is there a difference between 1st Degree Murder (pre-meditated) and Manslaughter? Johnsons play was in the heat of the moment and I've already discussed the other reasons. Duncan's play was very deliberate and he intended to hurt someone. He said so himself before the game. Did you see him pause after rounding first, where he obviously should have stayed? This would be one thing if it were a hard slide on a close play with none of the pre-game junk, this does happen and it's forgiven. But with these circumstances, come on. Someone try to defend him...

Point 3. Lay off Gomes. I want one of you guys that played competetive sports to tell me that if someone from an opposing team made a threat and then pulled an obvious move like that, you and others wouldn't come to your mate's aid?

Final thought: Yes, stuff like this does happen with all teams. No, we don't need to start a XXXXX-haters thread every time this happens. Again: some orginizations, businesses or teams have a defiant lack of class and respect combined with and abundance of arrogance. The Yankees are such a team.
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