View Full Version : detroit NBA battle...
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holy ish. that was nuts!
Darkflight
11-19-2004, 11:39 PM
Someone fill me in, radio (newsradio) was too brief...
kush_14
11-20-2004, 12:36 AM
from what i understand artest pushed big ben, ben pushed back, they went at it, and then from there the rest of the people went at it, and then the great fans we have here in detroit backed up our team and started goin after indy
MsRandall
11-20-2004, 12:42 AM
Ben was fouled, he pushes Artest in the face with his hand....Artest walks away and lays on the score table a fan throws a drink hitting Atrest and he goes to the stands to fight the guy....Then you have a big fight between fans and Pacers...as they were exiting the Palace floor...fans continued to throw stuff...beer, soda etc...
GaryK
11-20-2004, 12:58 AM
i just saw it on espn. whew!!! it was so ugly!!!!
Cheatachu72
11-20-2004, 01:43 AM
wow, i was flipping through channels when it was happening and was like "whoa...just another skirmish" then it turned into a brawl......only in detriot i guess
tbakergobucks
11-20-2004, 02:23 AM
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it was very lucky no one was hurt bad. i hope everyone involved gets punished.
Marlon_JB2
11-20-2004, 04:01 AM
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I Just Saw It On Espn. I Love This City. :) Looks Like The NBA is the new NHL.
pdx77
11-20-2004, 04:04 AM
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It's nice to see that the NBA has nothing to say about it, I was thinking there will be fines or something.
gameshowpimp
11-20-2004, 04:58 AM
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There Will be fines its just a matter of time. nobody is saying anything yet.
snowman_guy
11-20-2004, 05:45 AM
The fould that Artest committed, shoulde have never happened. 15 point lead and you hammer a player going up for a basket. Bul***it. I do wrong the fan for throwing the beer bottle at Artest but being pro players there should be more discipline and professionalism shown. That was uncalled for.
mcurtiss1970
11-20-2004, 06:50 AM
there will be more than fines. it'll be like Marty McSorely. there will be criminal charges
Aeternavi
11-20-2004, 07:22 AM
Let"s Get Ready To Rumble!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
tbakergobucks
11-20-2004, 08:30 AM
Artest is a ticking time bom. He's another Denis Rodam but worse. 97-82 with 45.9 seconds left in the game and a 15 point lead what the ***, WHY FOUL?. The foul wasn't as hard as I first thought but it didn't really look like he was trying for the ball. How did Artest know which fan threw the beer? He was laying down right? As much as I don't want to see the fans get rich of this I hope they take a chunk of Artests,Jackson, and Oneal's money. Oneal gets a running start and clocks a fan that's on his knees from Artests punch. Don't give me the heat of them moment you got to know right from wrong. I know Artest was surprisingly just lying down on the table when he got hit in the face with a beer but you just can't go into the stands to fight someone. Now it's different if a fan comes out on the floor and is coming at you then use self defense. I hope they move back the fans and tighten up security. I feel bad for the kids that were crying seeing this vilence and the fans that weren't doing anything that got pushed and stepped on (older lady). :(
usfhett03
11-20-2004, 09:07 AM
Artest is a ticking time bom. He's another Denis Rodam but worse. 97-82 with 45.9 seconds left in the game and a 15 point lead what the ***, WHY FOUL?. The foul wasn't as hard as I first thought but it didn't really look like he was trying for the ball. How did Artest know which fan threw the beer? He was laying down right? As much as I don't want to see the fans get rich of this I hope they take a chunk of Artests,Jackson, and Oneal's money. Oneal gets a running start and clocks a fan that's on his knees from Artests punch. Don't give me the heat of them moment you got to know right from wrong. I know Artest was surprisingly just lying down on the table when he got hit in the face with a beer but you just can't go into the stands to fight someone. Now it's different if a fan comes out on the floor and is coming at you then use self defense. I hope they move back the fans and tighten up security. I feel bad for the kids that were crying seeing this vilence and the fans that weren't doing anything that got pushed and stepped on (older lady). :(
I agree with you for the most part. The players that went into the stands to fight, should be suspened for a minimum of 10 games. Steven Jackson should be expelled from the league. Instead of following Artest in their to get him out. He haymakers some randon guy in the face, not too mention he was trying to fight Wallace the whoe time, even after the original player fight was dying down. And like you said, how did Artest know who threw it. I don't think it was the guy he went after. Kinda hard to throw an open container that far and have it still full IMO. The fans that went onto the court deserved what they got, except the guy that Jermain O'Neal hit with a 5 foot running start. That dude was already on the ground. Now the guy that Artest punched on the court floor definetly deserved that. Bottomline is that Artest should have never gone into the crowd. Off course all of the fans starting getting involved. The players invaded their space, just like if a fan came onto the court in a normal game and start fighting with a player, the team would have all jumped the fan. If I was in the stands and a group of players starts a fight in the stands, I would be doing what the fans did for the most part (except throw the chair).
Aeternavi
11-20-2004, 09:14 AM
Artest is a ticking time bom. He's another Denis Rodam but worse. 97-82 with 45.9 seconds left in the game and a 15 point lead what the ***, WHY FOUL?. The foul wasn't as hard as I first thought but it didn't really look like he was trying for the ball. How did Artest know which fan threw the beer? He was laying down right? As much as I don't want to see the fans get rich of this I hope they take a chunk of Artests,Jackson, and Oneal's money. Oneal gets a running start and clocks a fan that's on his knees from Artests punch. Don't give me the heat of them moment you got to know right from wrong. I know Artest was surprisingly just lying down on the table when he got hit in the face with a beer but you just can't go into the stands to fight someone. Now it's different if a fan comes out on the floor and is coming at you then use self defense. I hope they move back the fans and tighten up security. I feel bad for the kids that were crying seeing this vilence and the fans that weren't doing anything that got pushed and stepped on (older lady). :(
Why do you make it sound like this was ALL Pacers? Did you see the actual analysis of it? Yeah, the foul was a little too much, but there was NO need at all for Ben Wallace to shove him in the first place. After the beer/soda was thrown at Artest, you can see the fan taunting him that did it. He got what was coming to him. Then you have the other fans sucker punching the players when they were in the stands, I would retalliate too. The same fan that sucker punched him came out on the court and taunted him AGAIN. I would have blasted his ass too.
Sure some of it was heat of the moment, but there was NO need whatsoever to throw the beer/soda, come out on the court, or sucker punch the players.
Personally, I am a Pacers fan, but I see NONE of what went on acceptable by either side. Both teams should be fined/punished EQUALLY. It was started with a stupid foul, but it was escallated way more by the FANS, not so much the players. Yeah, the players over reacted, but I would too if I got a cup of beer thrown at me (which I have happen to me in the past and I acted the same way).
It is stupidity like this that will ruin the game for the rest of us. It always takes just 1 incident like this to change, and lower the fun factor for all.
snowman_guy
11-20-2004, 09:53 AM
Why do you make it sound like this was ALL Pacers? Did you see the actual analysis of it? Yeah, the foul was a little too much, but there was NO need at all for Ben Wallace to shove him in the first place. After the beer/soda was thrown at Artest, you can see the fan taunting him that did it. He got what was coming to him. Then you have the other fans sucker punching the players when they were in the stands, I would retalliate too. The same fan that sucker punched him came out on the court and taunted him AGAIN. I would have blasted his ass too.
Sure some of it was heat of the moment, but there was NO need whatsoever to throw the beer/soda, come out on the court, or sucker punch the players.
Personally, I am a Pacers fan, but I see NONE of what went on acceptable by either side. Both teams should be fined/punished EQUALLY. It was started with a stupid foul, but it was escallated way more by the FANS, not so much the players. Yeah, the players over reacted, but I would too if I got a cup of beer thrown at me (which I have happen to me in the past and I acted the same way).
It is stupidity like this that will ruin the game for the rest of us. It always takes just 1 incident like this to change, and lower the fun factor for all.
I have read my columns and watched many different camera angles this morning, there was no need for the foul. One columnist even point out that Ben's defender backed off when he went for that shot. But Artest had no angle for the ball and hit Ben in the back of the head, if you missed that part. I agree with the pushing of Artest, but that happens in sports. What really got the players and the fans going, is the taunting made by Artest. He should have went to the locker room instead of showboating on the scorer's table. How many times are things thrown onto playing fields? Baseball is a bad sport for that. Are there any players rushing the stands? (the baseball incident earlier this year did not involve a fan throwing something, all words were said and then the player threw the chair).
In my opinoin, (I know that it is my opinoin and you may not see the same way) Artest should be thrown out (seems like his music career is more important), O'neal and Jackson with double digit suspensions and Ben having a 5 game suspension (due to his lack of kicking fans asses).
tbakergobucks
11-20-2004, 10:07 AM
Why do you make it sound like this was ALL Pacers? Did you see the actual analysis of it? Yeah, the foul was a little too much, but there was NO need at all for Ben Wallace to shove him in the first place. After the beer/soda was thrown at Artest, you can see the fan taunting him that did it. He got what was coming to him. Then you have the other fans sucker punching the players when they were in the stands, I would retalliate too. The same fan that sucker punched him came out on the court and taunted him AGAIN. I would have blasted his ass too.
Sure some of it was heat of the moment, but there was NO need whatsoever to throw the beer/soda, come out on the court, or sucker punch the players.
Personally, I am a Pacers fan, but I see NONE of what went on acceptable by either side. Both teams should be fined/punished EQUALLY. It was started with a stupid foul, but it was escallated way more by the FANS, not so much the players. Yeah, the players over reacted, but I would too if I got a cup of beer thrown at me (which I have happen to me in the past and I acted the same way).
It is stupidity like this that will ruin the game for the rest of us. It always takes just 1 incident like this to change, and lower the fun factor for all.
I've whatched it three or four times last night and three or four more times this morning and I'm sick of it. Yes Wallance was wrong for what he did but if Artest lets him score and doesn't touch him this would have never happend. The Pacers are going to hate playing on the road now. I didn't really see any Pistons throwing punches but I guess I missed it. These athletes are paid a ton of money and the verbal abuse comes with it. You could poor a case of beer on me for 300,000 bucks a year. I no it's not the point but some of them are not thankfull for what they have.
mcurtiss1970
11-20-2004, 10:13 AM
You could poor a case of beer on me for 300,000 bucks a year.
as long as i could keep my mouth open, you could pour a case of beer on me for free
tbakergobucks
11-20-2004, 10:24 AM
as long as i could keep my mouth open, you could pour a case of beer on me for free
good point I'm trying to cut back. :D
MsRandall
11-20-2004, 10:34 AM
Personally I see the fan made the brawl happen...Yes Ben Wallace and Ron Atrest were in heated exchange ...but when the beer was thrown that when it really got ugly. I was at the Yankees vs the A's a couple of years playoff game I watched a fan throw a red soda on a Yankee fans white jersey....I then watched as the Yankee fan kick the **** out of the A's fan...Then a brawl broke out...People love their teams...Lord knows I love my Lakers...But I wont never think about throwing anything at anybody...That fan should have gotten his butt thrown in jail. What if that cup would have hit someone in the eye and made so he could never play basketball again? It was sad inceident, Jermaine Oneal was getting everything thrown at him too...just bad all the way around.
I disagree. I think Artest is to blame for the all out brawl. Not only did he initially foul Big Ben hard as hell. He decided to be a smart ass and go lay on the scoring table. Of course fans are gonna talk tons of ish to him. He's hated across America because of his arrogance and c0ckiness. Ok, so a fan threw a beer at him, big deal. He should've kept his cool. Instead he rushes the STANDS?!?!?! With NO hesitation at ALL!!??! And on top of all that he goes after the WRONG FAN!! He blasted an innocent bystander!! Thanks Artest, you just created a new Detroit millionaire because that guy didn't do a thing but stand there and he straight up ATTACKED HIM!!! That guy just basically won the lottery outta Artests' wallet. Jermaine O'neal will also get sued, as well as Stephen Jackson and the other guy (some cat off the bench). I am guessing that the fans that got attacked (I can only think of two, the innocent bystander, and the guy that got blasted first by Artest, then by O'neal) will get a big check from a huge civil suit, AFTER the criminal cases. They could actually sue the Pacers players, AND the NBA. Wow, craziness. All I gotta say is people are gonna talk really bad about the Detroit fans, but what the hell do you expect after the opposing team rushes the stands? I was glad to see them get DRENCHED in beer, soda, popcorn as they left through the tunnel. Indiana Pacers are some b*tches, I knew it before but it has now been proven.
Looks Like The NBA is the new NHL.
Except for the fact that NBA players never land punches. Have you ever noticed that? I dont know if they are just wussy's and afraid to fight, or if they are scared the league will suspend them more if they actually land a punch.
Anytime I see a "fight" in the NBA it usually only consists of pushing and "punches" that only hit the air.
mcurtiss1970
11-20-2004, 12:25 PM
Except for the fact that NBA players never land punches. Have you ever noticed that? I dont know if they are just wussy's and afraid to fight, or if they are scared the league will suspend them more if they actually land a punch.
Anytime I see a "fight" in the NBA it usually only consists of pushing and "punches" that only hit the air.
try saying that to Rudy Tomjanovich
Except for the fact that NBA players never land punches. Have you ever noticed that? I dont know if they are just wussy's and afraid to fight, or if they are scared the league will suspend them more if they actually land a punch.
Anytime I see a "fight" in the NBA it usually only consists of pushing and "punches" that only hit the air.
:huh: Obviously you missed the game last night :huh: And all the replays they showed through last night and today and most likely the weeks to come.
Any player who rushed the stands and (except for those who clearly were just trying to get other players out of the stands) should be permanently expelled from the NBA. That should be a no-brainer.
If you want to let them stay, then you either wire up the risky players with pet collars and an wire fence or you allow each fan to bring in a weapon (this would be pretty, no?)
You don't rush the stands--this isn't a grey issue. I hope that there is an example made by the law and the NBA. How many children will have to have nightmares; how many kids had role-models that just proved to be less mature than the kid themselves, deflating their hope--how many times are we going to let the most abstract behavior (especially when dangerous) to be rewarded with fame?
I'm wish I was the NBA commish--heads would roll.
mcurtiss1970
11-20-2004, 01:11 PM
How many children will have to have nightmares; how many kids had role-models that just proved to be less mature than the kid themselves, deflating their hope.
dude, i think the concept of sports stars as role models went out the window a long time ago- or should have.
try saying that to Rudy Tomjanovich
Yeah, He got clocked pretty good heh
dude, i think the concept of sports stars as role models went out the window a long time ago- or should have.
I agree; should have. Anybody got a link to the video on the net?
mcurtiss1970
11-20-2004, 01:18 PM
espn.com has it
I agree; should have. Anybody got a link to the video on the net?
Detroit BasketBrawl (http://www.webrats.com/index.php/archives/2004/11/20/pistonspacers-game-ends-after-fight-with-the-fans/)
kush_14
11-20-2004, 01:50 PM
ben, artest, oneal, and jackson all got suspended for an indefinate amount of time.
what u guys thnk?
Jonacell
11-20-2004, 01:54 PM
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i hope they're not suspended with pay.
mcurtiss1970
11-20-2004, 02:02 PM
ben's the only guy that should come back this year.
ben, artest, oneal, and jackson all got suspended for an indefinate amount of time.
what u guys thnk?
I think Ben should be suspended for 1-3 games maximum (He went after Artest for a hard foul. Usually players get a couple games suspension for that kind of thing). Artest, O'neal and Jackson should be watching the rest of the season on their livingroom couches (they were basically inciting a riot).
I dont know if anyone posting on this site has ever played basketball before. But let me run down the scenario from the standpoint of someone who has, and also has knowledge of the players at hand.
Ron Artest, a usually physical and controvresial player hands Ben Wallace, (also a physical player) a hard foul. This happens in Basketball. Ben takes acception to the foul and decides to retaliate. This also happens in Basketball. For this Ben Wallace should have been given 2 games off. Everything up to this point is normal basketball, none of it would have reached any head lines.
The fact that Artest did not retaliate after Wallace's shove is exemplary. Any other NBA player would have gotten back in Wallace's face but, Artest showed that he was not getting involved by laying on the scorer's table. Overkill? I think not, when you factor in Artest history, he was removing himself from the situation.
Now some idiot decides to throw a beer at Artest. I dont care if he is a "professional". He is a man first and I don't know any man that would allow another man to throw a beer in his face. I know I wouldn't.
Artest had just been shoved, "HARD", after a very physical game. I'm sure his instict was to get Wallace back but he didn't. His anger was already high, and then to have some Jack A** throw a beer at him set him off. I would have done the same thing Artest did. And his "TEAMMATES" went in to help after they saw what was going on. I would have done the same thing. And anyone that didn't come to my aid would have been held in contempt.
I dont know if anyone posting on this site has ever played basketball before. But let me run down the scenario from the standpoint of someone who has, and also has knowledge of the players at hand.
Ron Artest, a usually physical and controvresial player hands Ben Wallace, (also a physical player) a hard foul. This happens in Basketball. Ben takes acception to the foul and decides to retaliate. This also happens in Basketball. For this Ben Wallace should have been given 2 games off. Everything up to this point is normal basketball, none of it would have reached any head lines.
The fact that Artest did not retaliate after Wallace's shove is exemplary. Any other NBA player would have gotten back in Wallace's face but, Artest showed that he was not getting involved by laying on the scorer's table. Overkill? I think not, when you factor in Artest history, he was removing himself from the situation.
Now some idiot decides to throw a beer at Artest. I dont care if he is a "professional". He is a man first and I don't know any man that would allow another man to throw a beer in his face. I know I wouldn't.
Artest had just been shoved, "HARD", after a very physical game. I'm sure his instict was to get Wallace back but he didn't. His anger was already high, and then to have some Jack A** throw a beer at him set him off. I would have done the same thing Artest did. And his "TEAMMATES" went in to help after they saw what was going on. I would have done the same thing. And anyone that didn't come to my aid would have been held in contempt.
I think if you're making millions of dollars per year and you have a stupid fan do something that hurts your pride, you take your hit and let the fan get banned from games or you take him to court for assault.
If you don't have the control to allow you to avoid going apezhit and blazing the stands for revenge (did he even hit the right guy?) then I'll accept that you're human, and you had a normal human reaction but if I'm the commish, you're banned from the NBA. There's no room for it. What will it take? Maybe if he strikes a kid, a lady, or an elderly person--does that make it less acceptable? You can't attack fans. I think he should be tossed.
I won't watch another NBA game if I can avoid it. I could find more entertainment and civil behavior at a zoo.
tbakergobucks
11-20-2004, 05:04 PM
I dont know if anyone posting on this site has ever played basketball before. But let me run down the scenario from the standpoint of someone who has, and also has knowledge of the players at hand.
Ron Artest, a usually physical and controvresial player hands Ben Wallace, (also a physical player) a hard foul. This happens in Basketball. Ben takes acception to the foul and decides to retaliate. This also happens in Basketball. For this Ben Wallace should have been given 2 games off. Everything up to this point is normal basketball, none of it would have reached any head lines.
The fact that Artest did not retaliate after Wallace's shove is exemplary. Any other NBA player would have gotten back in Wallace's face but, Artest showed that he was not getting involved by laying on the scorer's table. Overkill? I think not, when you factor in Artest history, he was removing himself from the situation.
Now some idiot decides to throw a beer at Artest. I dont care if he is a "professional". He is a man first and I don't know any man that would allow another man to throw a beer in his face. I know I wouldn't.
Artest had just been shoved, "HARD", after a very physical game. I'm sure his instict was to get Wallace back but he didn't. His anger was already high, and then to have some Jack A** throw a beer at him set him off. I would have done the same thing Artest did. And his "TEAMMATES" went in to help after they saw what was going on. I would have done the same thing. And anyone that didn't come to my aid would have been held in contempt.
I understand how you feel to a sertain exstent but say you punch the guy then he falls and hits head on a chair. He later dies. How would you feel then?
LoDown3
11-20-2004, 05:15 PM
the one-tome artest doesnt do anything he gets pushed in the face, towel thrown at him(both from Wallace's frustration from losing) then relaxes cuz obviously he knows himself...then someone launches beer at his face from like 5 feet away, POINT BLANK???... dumba$s fans r to blame for this, but artest being artest, is gonna get alot of punishment
1st...he couldve EASILY hit the first guy he grabbed in the face like 4 times with hir free right hand, but he just HELD him down as u can see. then the dumbass in Blue who actually threw the cup starts hittin him in the face???
and Y did that kid run up to him on court anyways?? wat an idiot...
they all deserved to b punched AND security should get the blame for lettin those idiots on the court...wat was their motive? to have a chat with artest and the pacers??? If i see a furioius 6'7" 245lbs chiseled Artest who just got attacked by dam near every1 ummm, dont think i'm going to walk up to him and to heckle or anything else.
BUT, it was hilarious when O'neal cam out of nowhere and hit that dumb kid's face... :hee: even tho it was definetly not necessary.
THATS WAT HAPPENED...way to go Detroit...NBA cant replace NHL, sorry.
--this is just gonna turn into more bad press about nba + sports players being "unprofessional" or unstable or "too hood" or watever...
LoDown3
11-20-2004, 05:19 PM
I hear u Vizi...
the players r professionals, but still humans with emotions like the rest of us
Fans think they're untouchable, which is unbelivably unfair
I think if you're making millions of dollars per year and you have a stupid fan do something that hurts your pride, you take your hit and let the fan get banned from games or you take him to court for assault.
Exactly.
Well, the guy that Artest went after in the stands will be getting paid. All the prosecutor has to say is, "My client was in the stands innocently watching the game and without provocation he was attacked by the Basketball player Ron Artest."
Who knows, maybe he'll just settle out of court for a couple million.
You can't attack fans. I think he should be tossed.
Fans are not exempt from getting an A** kicking. A fan assaulted Artest and Artest retalliated. I'm sure the NBA players Union is going to have something to say about the suspensions.
rochfo
11-20-2004, 05:42 PM
Bottom line, as Nugo said before: as an NBA player, you DO NOT enter the stands in retaliation. EVER. Allow security to take care of the offending fan and maintain your dignity. Too late...
I hear u Vizi...
the players r professionals, but still humans with emotions like the rest of us
Fans think they're untouchable, which is unbelivably unfair
Fair or not, the players have bounderies in an arena too. The players dont come into the stands and the fans stay off the court. Sure that kid that got blasted by Artest and O'neal is a moron for getting in Artest face on the court and they served him accordingly. But I'm sorry, Stephen jackson going into the stands to battle a 5'5" hobbit? Thats not right.
Vizi, you're almost commending Artest for what he did, first by "keeping his cool" and not trying to battle Wallace. Did you happen to notice how scared he was of Big Ben? Ben would have WORKED Artest and Artest knew it. Thats why he decided to be a c0cky wuss and lay down on the table. He was only trying to piss off Ben more. Then you commend him for getting in the stands and battling fans for getting some soda poured on him (it wasn't beer btw, they serve beers in plastic bottles at the Palace, the guy threw a soda cup at him) saying it was understandable?? I'll bet if you ask any NBA players if they would have reacted the same way Artest did, they would say "hell no."
Oh well, think of it this way. At least Artest will have plenty of time to finish/promote his new album :hee:
mcurtiss1970
11-20-2004, 05:51 PM
i think there's two alternatives that the NBA should look at. both come from european soccer
1) if its a big rivalry game, no fans allowed. the teams play in front of no one
2) seperate the fans from the playing suraface by a fence or hockey-rink type thing
Fair or not, the players have bounderies in an arena too. The players dont come into the stands and the fans stay off the court. Sure that kid that got blasted by Artest and O'neal is a moron for getting in Artest face on the court and they served him accordingly. But I'm sorry, Stephen jackson going into the stands to battle a 5'5" hobbit? Thats not right.
Vizi, you're almost commending Artest for what he did, first by "keeping his cool" and not trying to battle Wallace. Did you happen to notice how scared he was of Big Ben? Ben would have WORKED Artest and Artest knew it. Thats why he decided to be a c0cky wuss and lay down on the table. He was only trying to piss off Ben more. Then you commend him for getting in the stands and battling fans for getting some soda poured on him (it wasn't beer btw, they serve beers in plastic bottles at the Palace, the guy threw a soda cup at him) saying it was understandable?? I'll bet if you ask any NBA players if they would have reacted the same way Artest did, they would say "hell no."
Oh well, think of it this way. At least Artest will have plenty of time to finish/promote his new album :hee:
I didn't see any fear in Artest. I have never seen him back down in fear of a person. If you follow basketball you would know the trouble Artest has had over the last 2 seasons. He was trying to remove himself from the situation.
NBA players have been asked what would they have done in that situation. For one Shaq has gone on record as saying that he would have done the same thing.
The only thing I commend him for is not retaliating against Wallace. It was a smart move. By not retaliating he would not risk being suspended. As for going into the stands I don't commend him for it. But I do understand why he did what he did.
And as for the "5'5 Hobbit". I've seen men get beat up by guys half their size. And with all of those people surrounding Artest, Jackson was just having his back, as he should.
I have a question to ask all that are posting on this topic.
You have a friend that started a fight with a group of guys, and your friend was wrong for starting the fight. Now your friend is surounded by 8 guys would you help him? Or would you let him get pummeled because it was his fault that he was fighting in the first place?
By the way, this is essentially the situation that S. Jackson was in.
I have a question to ask all that are posting on this topic.
You have a friend that started a fight with a group of guys, and your friend was wrong for starting the fight. Now your friend is surounded by 8 guy would you help him? Or would you let him get pummeled because it was his fault that he was fighting in the first place?
By the way, this is essentially the situation that S. Jackson was in.
Apples and oranges; does not compute. I'd give my life for a friend. And I would have gone into the stands to try to pull him out. I'm not going to start punching people that throw water at him or popcorn. But if he charged the stands to smack down a little accountant geek-looking guy for tossing a cup at him, he's going it alone when:
1. He knows it's stupid.
2. I need to keep getting paid.
3. He's not in serious danger.
As far as I know, none of us is living a high-profile life making millions. Commitment to a friend cannot compare to the conscious decision to aid and abet the unreasonable attacks of a teammate on a crowd of riled-up bystanders.
Furthermore, that's only about the sidekicks of this shenanigan. I haven't really focused on them; they were all wrong if they hit or punched a fan. And the fans were wrong to throw cups, popcorn (even the buttered kind), or beer or franks ("Who throws franks, people. I mean really."). But when you are assaulted with pork, paper, or pepsi, you have 10 million ways to deal with the assailant without trying to knock them unconscious and possibly kill them. The American legal system, as F'ed up as it is, will allow for punishment of the snack snipers.
Anyway, we won't agree; you see it your way, I see it mine. I just know that if this is what the NBA has become, fans included, then I have no interest in watching games anymore and I'll do what I can to keep my child from watching it. There's a line between fans and players that must not be crossed; this is not some remnant of antiquated thinking--it's an everlasting, unwritten (for now) rule.
Anyway, we won't agree; you see it your way, I see it mine.
Point noted.
I didn't see any fear in Artest. I have never seen him back down in fear of a person. If you follow basketball you would know the trouble Artest has had over the last 2 seasons. He was trying to remove himself from the situation.
NBA players have been asked what would they have done in that situation. For one Shaq has gone on record as saying that he would have done the same thing.
The only thing I commend him for is not retaliating against Wallace. It was a smart move. By not retaliating he would not risk being suspended. As for going into the stands I don't commend him for it. But I do understand why he did what he did.
And as for the "5'5 Hobbit". I've seen men get beat up by guys half their size. And with all of those people surrounding Artest, Jackson was just having his back, as he should.
I'm sure Wallace would have worked him over as I said. I think Artest was sure of this too. (Not only was Artest likely pushing his buttons throughout the game, followed by that cheap ass foul, Wallace just lost his oldest brother. He probably had some pent up emotions breaking out).
Shaq doesn't count. Why? Because he's Shaq. (btw, after the NBA announces the length/cost of the punishments, even Shaq will probably retract that statement)
I understand why he did what he did too. It's called Crazy (I think The NBA is gonna look at Artest and his track record and now this and decide he's too much of a liability. He'll be taking a serious break, and probably getting some counseling)
Hey man, it's all good that Jackson got Artest's back and helped him handle those intimidating water throwers. It's gonna cost him of course but hey, at least he seems to be a good buddy :rolleyes:
rochfo
11-20-2004, 07:29 PM
I have a question to ask all that are posting on this topic.
You have a friend that started a fight with a group of guys, and your friend was wrong for starting the fight. Now your friend is surounded by 8 guys would you help him? Or would you let him get pummeled because it was his fault that he was fighting in the first place?
By the way, this is essentially the situation that S. Jackson was in.
Are you kidding me? How on earth is this the same situation?
LoDown3
11-20-2004, 09:23 PM
honestly, i think jackson made the whole thing appear so much worse...now HE was the one who went nuts swingin at everyone...artest only hit some1 AFTER he got punched twice in the face....
the first guy he only grabbed and look at the position he had him in! he couldve hit like 4/5 times with that right immediately...
...jackson + o'neal went overboard and kinda came outta nowhere and so did wallace for starting the whole mess w/ his fruity hard shove over a frustrating loss and pistons bad record.
All I can say is THAT WAS AWESOME! My theory is that the NBA set the whole thing up for TV ratings. You just watch...it will be the Pacers VS. Pistons in the Eastern Finals too. What a boost for TV ratings.
My blame goes to 2 people...the Wallace dude and the crack head fan who first threw the beer. Like a previous poster said...Wallace straight up attacked Artest and Artest took it with NO retaliation. That hyped everything up. They the crack wh*re...I mean crack head that threw the beer really got things going...sure Artest should have never entered the stands but that would have never happened had the two previous things I mentioned not happened. The only other punch I saw was the short fat dude that obviously was smoking something to think he could take on O'Neal got nailed. That's SO awesome in slow motion the way he hits the deck!
Either way...I LOVE my Pacers being born and raised in Indiana and I like the Pistons (family in Detroit) for their passion and the way they whooped some bootie last year in the playoffs.
More importantly...GO CAVALIERS AND MAGIC!!!!!!!!!!
Felicia
11-21-2004, 12:33 AM
I'll be damned. I can't believe this!
Are they attacking the fans nowadays! Can they do that? Well... they did!
Looks like Artest will miss 30 games. Jackson and O'neal miss 20. Wallace misses 5.
The exact length of the four players' bans could be announced as early as Sunday.
However, Ben Maller and Chris Landry of Fox Sports Radio have learned from Pistons play-by-play man Fred McLeod that the NBA plans to suspend Artest for 30 games.
Additionally, O'Neal and Jackson will both get 20-game suspensions. Wallace, on the other hand, will miss just five games.
http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3179442
Artest and Jackson need to be tossed for the season in my opinion. :rolleyes:
LoDown3
11-21-2004, 12:59 AM
Looks like Artest will miss 30 games. Jackson and O'neal miss 20. Wallace misses 5.
The exact length of the four players' bans could be announced as early as Sunday.
However, Ben Maller and Chris Landry of Fox Sports Radio have learned from Pistons play-by-play man Fred McLeod that the NBA plans to suspend Artest for 30 games.
Additionally, O'Neal and Jackson will both get 20-game suspensions. Wallace, on the other hand, will miss just five games.
http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3179442
Artest and Jackson need to be tossed for the season in my opinion. :rolleyes:
wallace acted like hes losing an NBA finals game and got too pissed over a lil slap on the arm...sh^t happens, brush it off. Its not artest's fault that his team is better and not off to the same bad start as the champs...
8jr...i like ur theory haha. u kno b4 the game they talked up the fact that this is becoming a rivalry because of their playoff matchups...look at it now, its like bad boys vs. bad boys...very marketable, commisioner stern :D
Its not artest's fault that his team is better and not off to the same bad start as the champs...
Well, since they 6 usable players now we'll see how long they stay a "winning team" (above .500) :hee:
All I can say is THAT WAS AWESOME! My theory is that the NBA set the whole thing up for TV ratings. You just watch...it will be the Pacers VS. Pistons in the Eastern Finals too. What a boost for TV ratings.
I wouldn't doubt it.
Looks like Artest will miss 30 games. Jackson and O'neal miss 20. Wallace misses 5.
I think that this is fair. Although I would give Artest 20 also.
Just to make myself clear on the topic. I do think that the players should be punished for going into the stands. Just like I think the fan that assaulted Artest, (and it is Simple Assault), should have a day in court for what he caused, (Cause and Effect, stands up in court). The fan (Insighted a Riot). My point is that I understand why Artest did what he did, and I would have done the same.
Are you kidding me? How on earth is this the same situation?
It is definitely the same situation, except for the fact that Artest didn't start the whole thing. Artest went into the stands and was sourounded by a bunch of apparently crazed Piston fans with a mob mentallity (look at what happened as the players left the court). Jackson saw this and jumped in to get the people off of Artests back. Jackson didn't hit the guy that Artest was hitting, he was hitting the people in back of Artest. These poeple had the potential to hit Artest from behind. Same situation.
Maybe its because I had friend, notice HAD, that left me to fend off 4 other guys. (I didn't start the thing, but if you roll with me I expect you to have my back, just as I would have yours.) Money lost or no money lost, this in our culture is to be understood without saying. ALL WE GOT IS US!!!! Roll right or stay home.
Hats off to S. Jackson.
tbakergobucks
11-21-2004, 07:19 AM
Wirelessly posted (Samsung-SPHA700 AU-MIC-A700/2.0 MMP/2.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1)
it's sad to see such hatred with are own people. send the people that want to fight to iraq let them fight them. and i disagre jackson is as dumb as artest for going into the stands to defend his crazy teamate.
Wirelessly posted (Samsung-SPHA700 AU-MIC-A700/2.0 MMP/2.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1)
it's sad to see such hatred with are own people. send the people that want to fight to iraq let them fight them. and i disagre jackson is as dumb as artest for going into the stands to defend his crazy teamate.
Send fighters to Iraq....ok.
Looks like Artest will miss 30 games. Jackson and O'neal miss 20. Wallace misses 5.
That's not really balanced seeing that Wallace "technically" started the whole mess with his shove! Another point. If the officials would have tossed Wallace the second he shoved (why they didn't, I don't know) then the whole thing could have also been avoided!
tbakergobucks
11-21-2004, 10:10 AM
In my younger days I thought bar fights were kind of cool not that I've been in that many. I was a stupid punk drunk kid and hung out with a guy that boxed. One time these guys came into the bar that me and my buddies were at looking for a fight. They got what they wanted and we all went out in the parking lot. I knocked a guy down to the concrete and got on top of him. As I was pulling my arm back my elbow hit my friend in the mouth. He grabbed me and pulled me away. I'm not sure what would have happend if I was to hit him while his head was close to the concrete. I try to avoid any altercations now.
rochfo
11-21-2004, 01:00 PM
It is definitely the same situation, except for the fact that Artest didn't start the whole thing. Artest went into the stands and was sourounded by a bunch of apparently crazed Piston fans with a mob mentallity (look at what happened as the players left the court). Jackson saw this and jumped in to get the people off of Artests back. Jackson didn't hit the guy that Artest was hitting, he was hitting the people in back of Artest. These poeple had the potential to hit Artest from behind. Same situation.
Maybe its because I had friend, notice HAD, that left me to fend off 4 other guys. (I didn't start the thing, but if you roll with me I expect you to have my back, just as I would have yours.) Money lost or no money lost, this in our culture is to be understood without saying. ALL WE GOT IS US!!!! Roll right or stay home.
Hats off to S. Jackson.
Had Artest and Jackson stayed on the court, NONE of what transpired later would have happened. If someone picks a fight in a bar or a similar social setting, you may be forced to fight back because you have no recourse (and may suffer bodily injury). Artest, Jackson and O'Neal are in an NBA stadium, chock full of security. His life was in no way shape or form in danger if he had realized that this fan was an ***hole and would've been dealt with accordingly. But he had to teach this guy a lesson, thus escalating the situation.
Fighting back solely to save face and not in self defense is not only idiotic and immature, but can lead to results like this.
Had Artest and Jackson stayed on the court, NONE of what transpired later would have happened. If someone picks a fight in a bar or a similar social setting, you may be forced to fight back because you have no recourse (and may suffer bodily injury). Artest, Jackson and O'Neal are in an NBA stadium, chock full of security. His life was in no way shape or form in danger if he had realized that this fan was an ***hole and would've been dealt with accordingly. But he had to teach this guy a lesson, thus escalating the situation.
Fighting back solely to save face and not in self defense is not only idiotic and immature, but can lead to results like this.
Could not have said it better.
jizzon
11-21-2004, 05:34 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3182714
Suspensions without pay
- Ron Artest: rest of season (72 games)
- Stephen Jackson: 30 games
- Jermaine O'neal: 25 games
- Ben Wallace: 6 games
- Anthony Johnson: 5 games
- Reggie Miller: 1 game
- Chauncey Billups: 1 game
- Elden Campbell: 1 game
- Derrick Coleman: 1 game
Hats off to S. Jackson.
Hats off to Jackson?? Jackson is a crazy person. Notice how before he and his partner in crime took to the stands, he was busy trying to fight with ALL the Pistons, stepping to Derrick Coleman, Rip and Hunter. He was just ready to fight (anyone but Big Ben that is..watch the replays and you'll see him run away like a lil Beeyotch!!). Jackson is a complete idiot and Him and Artest both deserve at LEAST 30 games. (edit: good to Artest taking a loooong vacation)
To anyone that says Ben deserves more than 6 games. Sorry but you're wrong. All Ben did was shove Artest. That is always just a couple games and money, if that. The reason he'll get 6 is to avoid serious backlash because it was the beginning of something much larger. After the original shove though, Artest, Jackson and O'neal are responsible for their own actions (going after the fans) and they will suffer the consequences.
edited after seeing above post.
mcurtiss1970
11-21-2004, 05:44 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3182714
Suspensions without pay
- Ron Artest: rest of season (72 games)
- Stephen Jackson: 30 games
- Jermaine O'neal: 25 games
- Ben Wallace: 6 games
- Anthony Johnson: 5 games
- Reggie Miller: 1 game
- Chauncey Billups: 1 game
- Elden Campbell: 1 game
- Derrick Coleman: 1 game
someone write this down: Ron Artest has played his last NBA game ever.
http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3182714
Suspensions without pay
- Ron Artest: rest of season (72 games)
- Stephen Jackson: 30 games
- Jermaine O'neal: 25 games
Thats fair.
Thats fair.
HA! Yea right! Maybe to someone from MICHIGAYN. I think that's is absolutly insanely not fair. This ruins things for the entire Pacers organization and all the fans. All thanks to the stupid Wallace dude. You know him and the crackhead beer throwing fan are laughing it up...that's what pisses me off...they caused the whole mess!
Yummi
11-21-2004, 10:05 PM
I think the rest of the season is a bit harsh, but I also think the fans should be prosecuted as well. Despite the fact that the players were wrong for going after them, they were wrong for throwing beer. It could have been over, a few thousand dollar fines all around and done. But some ignorant drunk person had to take it there and here we are.
They were all wrong. Period. They should all be held accountable for their actions. Period.
tbakergobucks
11-21-2004, 10:24 PM
HA! Yea right! Maybe to someone from MICHIGAYN. I think that's is absolutly insanely not fair. This ruins things for the entire Pacers organization and all the fans. All thanks to the stupid Wallace dude. You know him and the crackhead beer throwing fan are laughing it up...that's what pisses me off...they caused the whole mess!
I'm glad to see that Stern came down on them hard. The only way to get some of these athletes attention is through there wallet. I wonder how much it will cost each one of them? This was caused by multiple people not just Wallace. It sucks for the Pacer fans but blame the organization for not telling Artest to cool it from past issues or be suspended without pay.
HA! Yea right! Maybe to someone from MICHIGAYN. I think that's is absolutly insanely not fair. This ruins things for the entire Pacers organization and all the fans. All thanks to the stupid Wallace dude. You know him and the crackhead beer throwing fan are laughing it up...that's what pisses me off...they caused the whole mess!
Sorry pal but Wallace is not the one to blame. He only pushed Artest after a HARD and INTENTIONAL foul with 49 seconds left and Indiana easily winning with a 15 point cushion. Maybe if someone got out of the NASCAR pits long enough to watch a basketball game (rather than just the highlights on Sports Center) they'd realize this kind of thing happens often (this kind of thing meaning hard foul followed by a shove followed by a technical foul, fine, possibly suspension if blows are actually thrown). If you blame Wallace for pushing Artest it's then just as easy to blame Artest for the cheap shot he took at Wallace. Basically any way you look at it, it always comes back to Artest. His entire past leads to it too. Stern knows this and that is why Artest will be in the recording studio all season rather than the Court (well, Basketball court that is, because we know he'll most likely being talking to a judge sooner than later :hee: )
edit: Michigayn??....good one :rolleyes:
Today was the last NASCAR race so I figure I will wonder out of the pits and follow a little NBWF (National Basketball Wresting Foundation) action. Pretty good so far...really looking forward to Daytona in February though!
My point is that Artest's foul was not anything out of the relm or ordinary. The comeback from Wallace WAS NOT ordinary. The refs should have tossed Wallace at that point the the thing would have been avoided!
My point is that Artest's foul was not anything out of the relm or ordinary.
You're right. Nothing out of the ordinary for Artest anyway. He's known for taking cheap shots and commiting cheap fouls. Ben just wasn't having it. Either way, you're right. If they had just T'd up Ben and ejected him right away and gotten him out of there it could've all ben avoided. I think everything just happend way too fast and it didn't help the situation that Jackson had to start trying to start stuff with all the other Pistons and later followed his buddy to the stands. The Indiana players could've kept their cool but decided to take the other path...into the stands.
David Stern is obviously man the thinks rationally. Look at who he punished, for how long, and why. It's all very clear, to a rational person anyway. :D
LoDown3
11-22-2004, 01:25 AM
1. ur from michigan...
and no, i'm not a pacers fan, tryin to be objective
wallace's suspension is WAY too short, some other suspensions werent even necessary, but eh well
ANYWAYs, i think the rest of the season is unfair...he was off to his best start ever, not only productivity wise, but also foul/trouble wise (besides the album thing, thats personal, i'm talkin on court)
hes not even on the list of Most Techs per game, fouls per game, ejections, etc...
still off to his best and most productive overall start. i wonder how he feels now and how he'll feel when hes back...bet u he gets MVP,defensive player,Allstar and a championship :D haha
rochfo
11-22-2004, 01:36 AM
bet u he gets MVP,defensive player,Allstar and a championship :D haha
As long as he learns to grow up, all the best to him.
i think the rest of the season is unfair...he was off to his best start ever, not only productivity wise, but also foul/trouble wise (besides the album thing, thats personal, i'm talkin on court)
hes not even on the list of Most Techs per game, fouls per game, ejections, etc...
still off to his best and most productive overall start. i wonder how he feels now and how he'll feel when hes back...bet u he gets MVP,defensive player,Allstar and a championship :D haha
Yo, check out this article and tell me what you think:
[link removed]
Edit: actually that article is weak. Nevermind. :o
Sorry pal but Wallace is not the one to blame. He only pushed Artest after a HARD and INTENTIONAL foul with 49 seconds left and Indiana easily winning with a 15 point cushion.
The foul was not that hard. Wallace got hit and landed on his feet. If he had fell then it may have been construed as hard. The refs wouldn't have even called an intentional if Wallace hadn't lost his cool and went after Artest with a HARD shove to the chest(and face). But as I said before, all of this is basketball stuff, no big woop. It is one of the most physical sports played. Imotions and tempers are always high. When you have a 260+ lb. guy bumping you for close to an hour you do tend to get a little short. It happens.
As LoDown3 said the rest of the season is unfair. Stern just did it to pacify the "fans" and the media.
GaryK
11-22-2004, 11:17 AM
acording to CNN Detroit is the 2nd most dangerous city in USA:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/11/22/dangerous.cities.ap/index.html
LoDown3
11-22-2004, 11:24 AM
Yo, check out this article and tell me what you think:
[link removed]
Edit: actually that article is weak. Nevermind. :o
aw man,wat was it about?
...yeah, u guys hear bout how much money they're all going to lose...
i remeber about $4.5mil for o'neal nd like $5.5mil for artest, saw it on sportscenter
by the way, wallace's suspension is WAY too short, just like hsi temper that night. every1 knows artest just gets in everyones head, funny to watch at times, but eh well. and it looks kinda unfair for pacers and pacer fans to just have their team chopped apart w/ lil action on other parties (fans, detroit, etc.)
Felicia
11-22-2004, 12:18 PM
I thought Artest's punishment was very fair. After reading his past I think Stern made it very clear that he's tired of babysiting and he's not puting up with Artest's BS anymore.
I believe hitting him where it hurts the most, his paycheck, would straighten him up. Not to mention the civils suits that may be filed!
For those that think Wallace's punishment was to light, why is it too light and what do you think would have been fair??
LoDown3
11-22-2004, 12:47 PM
give him more games...if he didnt react that way, never wouldve happened
also, he never even got a tech or anything for wat he did, he shouldve just left, but no...officials just sat there and watched him throw **** at artest.
and then there go the fans...
I dont blame him for EVERYTHING, but seems like hes being treated like he wasnt part of it
lcyals
11-22-2004, 12:54 PM
HA! Yea right! Maybe to someone from MICHIGAYN. I think that's is absolutly insanely not fair. This ruins things for the entire Pacers organization and all the fans. All thanks to the stupid Wallace dude. You know him and the crackhead beer throwing fan are laughing it up...that's what pisses me off...they caused the whole mess!
Are you a complete moron? Sure Wallace pushed Artest after the foul and that stupid fan threw the cup at Artest but did they force Artest into the stands? Did they force him to go seek retribution? NO. Artest, being the crazy, stupid individual he is, went into the stands looking for a fight. His moronic behavior is detrimental to the league. Athletes, no matter what the sport should not go into the stands. Period. End of discussion. The fan was totally wrong to throw the cup, but it's not Artest's job to punish the fan. His job is to play basketball, which up until that point, he was doing a great job. He crossed the line no matter how you look at it. In the heat of the moment, I can understand his urge to seek retribution because his pride was hurt, but as a professional, he should have backed away. He should have talked to the ref or someone at the scorer's table and pointed in the direction of where the cup came from and told them to find the person and throw them out. All this boils down to is that Artest's pride was wounded on national television, and he didn't want to be made out like a punk. Unfortunately for him, it's going to cost him $5 million dollars for his wounded pride.
Unfortunately for him, it's going to cost him $5 million dollars for his wounded pride.
^^Thats the bottom line right there^^
Motion to add this smiley
Edit: and so the Lawsuits (http://www.freep.com/news/latestnews/pm1503_20041122.htm) begin
LoDown3
11-22-2004, 04:21 PM
Motion to add this smiley
Edit: and so the Lawsuits (http://www.freep.com/news/latestnews/pm1503_20041122.htm) begin
hahaha...how cute
i just noticed in that article they mention the name of the fan who threw the cup,i bet somethings going to happen to that guy.
Lotta fans might b lookin for him. look @ the threats to kobe's accuser
ooo oo! another thing bout this article..."While Wallace shouted and threw a wristband at Artest"
now please look at the replay and tell me how a towel looks like a wrsitband. who wrote this thing anyways?!
oooh, Detroit Free Press....
just sumthin i noticed and threw at u, no need to charge into my stands
hahaha...how cute
i just noticed in that article they mention the name of the fan who threw the cup,i bet somethings going to happen to that guy.
HA! HA! Just like that fan last year that ruined things for the CUBS! I'll bet everytime he goes to a bar people will throw beer at him!
kush_14
11-23-2004, 07:55 PM
acording to CNN Detroit is the 2nd most dangerous city in USA:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/11/22/dangerous.cities.ap/index.html
and to think i got to college in detroit!
LoDown3
11-24-2004, 01:15 AM
Well, since they 6 usable players now we'll see how long they stay a "winning team" (above .500) :hee:
oh hey, dunno if u heard but the Pacers won again today vs.Celtics improving to 8-3
oh and those defending champion pistons just lost to the expansion team CHARLOTTE BOBCATS and rookie okafor was a beast!...22+15
yah...looks like Indy's still +.500, cant say the same for the champs :joy: ...lets blame this one on the fans too
I know...that's awesome...the PISTONS are in CLEVELAND tonight! Let's see if the Cavaliers can rip them up!
LoDown3
11-25-2004, 02:49 AM
I know...that's awesome...the PISTONS are in CLEVELAND tonight! Let's see if the Cavaliers can rip them up!
hmm, well Guy,PIstons lose again...this time to the CAVS 92-76?!...wow, didnt know wallace must do so much for em
obviously they're the team suffereing the most from all their suspensions, poor fellas :D
tbakergobucks
11-25-2004, 08:27 AM
you forgot to mention James had 43 points. Cavs are on a 7 or 8 game winning streak. :)
Yep...it was Lebron's career high. He played very well. They have won 7 of their last 8 after starting 0-3. They are in the same division as the Pistons and Pacers so things should be interesting!
Wirelessly posted (SamsungA680...Uknowit: Samsung-SPHA680 AU-MIC-A680/2.0 MMP/2.0)
Haters beware. the pistons will not stay down for long. sure we aren't playing our best ball right now but we will return to the finals, u can quote me on that.
LoDown3
11-26-2004, 12:23 PM
Wirelessly posted (SamsungA680...Uknowit: Samsung-SPHA680 AU-MIC-A680/2.0 MMP/2.0)
Haters beware. the pistons will not stay down for long. sure we aren't playing our best ball right now but we will return to the finals, u can quote me on that.
o by the way...the pacers beat the TIMBERWOLVES last night...
the TIMBERWOLVES?!
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