whats the deal with EV-DO, do we need new phones or data cards....

[MR29ROSE]

i was told that iwill have to trade in my cf2031 data card for a newer card that supports the fasterr ev-do service. is this true. or will the old cards be able to get those higher speeds
alos, wil our current phones be able to acheive those ev-do higher speeds, or will u need a newer handset to work with the higher speed.
what is the whole deal about ev-do
thanks

[Marlon_JB2]

Old cards will not be able to get the higher speeds. Once 1XEV-DO is deployed, you will have to buy a new card. The same applies to handsets.

[MR29ROSE]

my rep toldme they will givem e a 150 credit to get a new card when i give in my old one. also, will the new treo 650 have it ready you think?
mark

[Guy]

Old cards will not be able to get the higher speeds. Once 1XEV-DO is deployed, you will have to buy a new card. The same applies to handsets.


Are you sure about the handsets?? I'm pretty sure they will still work, but not get the higher speeds. You will need a new EV-DO handset to get EV-DO functionality. Much like when the jump from 2G to 3G (2.5G) was made.

[Marlon_JB2]

The same applies to handsets/cards...regarding the higher speeds. :) That's what I meant. Should have been more clear.

"Old cards will not be able to get the higher speeds. Once 1XEV-DO is deployed, you will have to buy a new card to get the higher speeds. Your old card will still work, but at 1XRTT speeds.. The same applies to handsets."

Thanks for the heads up, Guy.

[varma]

Is this EV-do with the sprint or verizon does all the markets have this service

[3G Cables]

Is this EV-do with the sprint or verizon does all the markets have this service

EV-DO is currently deployed in several markets for Verizon including coverage at a number of airports in additional cities. BroadbandAccess uses CDMA 1xEV-DO technology, which provides typical data speeds of 300-500 kbps, comparable to DSL and cable broadband. The new cities are Atlanta, Austin, Baltimore, Kansas City, Los Angeles, Miami/Fort Lauderdale, Milwaukee, New York, Philadelphia, Tampa, and West Palm Beach. San Diego, Washington DC, and Las Vegas were launched earlier this year. Verizon plans to have one-third of its network covered by the end of the year. Sprint recently announced plans to deploy the same EV-DO technology across its network.

It is clear now that Verizon's ambitious plans to have EV-DO coverage nationwide by the middle of 2005 are now dead in the water. Markets that are possible (if not probable) targets for launch of Sprint's EV-DO service later this year are now delayed by Verizon to the point in time that Verizon had planned to be completed with EV-DO deployment.

This is very good news for Sprint. If Sprint can stay on-track with their deployment plans, they now have a very good chance of having the first overlay of a 3G network with a next-generation 3G network in the United States.

All said and done, Verizon has more EV-DO markets launched currently however Sprint will pass them by very quickly starting in a few months from now.

Yes you will need new phones and PC cards to work with the higher speed EV-DO network but the network will still be backward compatible so you will still be able to use your older equipment with the slower/current speeds.

Did I leave anything out?

[varma]

EV-DO is currently deployed in several markets for Verizon including coverage at a number of airports in additional cities. BroadbandAccess uses CDMA 1xEV-DO technology, which provides typical data speeds of 300-500 kbps, comparable to DSL and cable broadband. The new cities are Atlanta, Austin, Baltimore, Kansas City, Los Angeles, Miami/Fort Lauderdale, Milwaukee, New York, Philadelphia, Tampa, and West Palm Beach. San Diego, Washington DC, and Las Vegas were launched earlier this year. Verizon plans to have one-third of its network covered by the end of the year. Sprint recently announced plans to deploy the same EV-DO technology across its network.

It is clear now that Verizon's ambitious plans to have EV-DO coverage nationwide by the middle of 2005 are now dead in the water. Markets that are possible (if not probable) targets for launch of Sprint's EV-DO service later this year are now delayed by Verizon to the point in time that Verizon had planned to be completed with EV-DO deployment.

This is very good news for Sprint. If Sprint can stay on-track with their deployment plans, they now have a very good chance of having the first overlay of a 3G network with a next-generation 3G network in the United States.

All said and done, Verizon has more EV-DO markets launched currently however Sprint will pass them by very quickly starting in a few months from now.

Yes you will need new phones and PC cards to work with the higher speed EV-DO network but the network will still be backward compatible so you will still be able to use your older equipment with the slower/current speeds.

Did I leave anything out?

I have asked this question on the other thread.

Is this upgrade in the network for vision or addition of new feature.
meaning do we have to pay additional amount to what we are paying for vision

[3G Cables]

I have asked this question on the other thread.

Is this upgrade in the network for vision or addition of new feature.
meaning do we have to pay additional amount to what we are paying for vision

Nobody knows the answer to that question except for Sprint when it is launched.

My guess is that it will be like Vision where it is $15 per month. You will get the EV-DO and regular Vision in areas that EV-DO is not available and it will still be $15 per month. That is my guess but in no means an official statement.

[gemsmaker]

How on earth can you say with a straight face that Verizon isn't doing well and Sprint is doing great? Verizon has 17 cities rolled out (the new 14 plus the original San Diego, Washington DC and Las Vegas) and they are many of the largest cities and metropolitan areas in the USA literally from coast to coast from Los Angeles to New York City and many of the largest population centers in-between. On the other hand, Sprint, who orignally said that they'd have substantial evDO deployments across the country by the end of the year 2004 when they made their "us too!" announcements back in June, has yet to roll out even ONE (1) city.

Verizon is cleaning Sprint's clock and I'm a 2+ year Sprint customer who was one of the first people in the USA to sign up for SprintPCSVision (unlimited data plan for my laptop) way back on September 18, 2004. I have absolutely NO LOYALTY to Sprint whatsoever. My loyalty is to myself, my business and my clients as a knowledge worker.

IF Verizon rolls out in Chicago ONE DAY earlier than Sprint, I will call Sprint and I will give them ONE CHANCE to *tell me EXACTLY WHEN* they are going to roll out in Chicago. If they tell me even

ONE TIME

that this information isn't available at this time, I will

IMMEDIATELY

walk down to the Verizon store at 500 Michigan Ave in downtown Chicago a few blocks from where I live and transfer my $200 per month Sprint account (including voice) over to Verizon. Because if you can't tell me WHEN you're going to deploy when your competitors have ALREADY deployed, I

HAVE

to make the worst-case business scenario assumption that you are NEVER going to deploy or deploy many millions of years hence long after I am dead and gone.

As Lord Maynard Keynes once said, "in the long run, we are all dead."

TIME is of the essence, Sprint.

Signed,

A Typical DISloyal Customer

[3G Cables]

How on earth can you say with a straight face that Verizon isn't doing well and Sprint is doing great? Verizon has 17 cities rolled out (the new 14 plus the original San Diego, Washington DC and Las Vegas) and they are many of the largest cities and metropolitan areas in the USA literally from coast to coast from Los Angeles to New York City and many of the largest population centers in-between. On the other hand, Sprint, who orignally said that they'd have substantial evDO deployments across the country by the end of the year 2004 when they made their "us too!" announcements back in June, has yet to roll out even ONE (1) city.

Verizon is cleaning Sprint's clock and I'm a 2+ year Sprint customer who was one of the first people in the USA to sign up for SprintPCSVision (unlimited data plan for my laptop) way back on September 18, 2004. I have absolutely NO LOYALTY to Sprint whatsoever. My loyalty is to myself, my business and my clients as a knowledge worker.

IF Verizon rolls out in Chicago ONE DAY earlier than Sprint, I will call Sprint and I will give them ONE CHANCE to *tell me EXACTLY WHEN* they are going to roll out in Chicago. If they tell me even

ONE TIME

that this information isn't available at this time, I will

IMMEDIATELY

walk down to the Verizon store at 500 Michigan Ave in downtown Chicago a few blocks from where I live and transfer my $200 per month Sprint account (including voice) over to Verizon. Because if you can't tell me WHEN you're going to deploy when your competitors have ALREADY deployed, I

HAVE

to make the worst-case business scenario assumption that you are NEVER going to deploy or deploy many millions of years hence long after I am dead and gone.

As Lord Maynard Keynes once said, "in the long run, we are all dead."

TIME is of the essence, Sprint.

Signed,

A Typical DISloyal Customer

What you may not understand is that for Verizon to upgrade their network to EV-DO is much harder than it is for Sprint. Actually, you may indeed understand that and that is where you hostility comes from.

The part you may not understand is that that it is much easier for Sprint to upgrade their towers. I too am disappointed that Sprint missed the first one out of the gate to deploy EV-DO however they will very quickly surpass Verizon in all markets.

However Sprints talk is cheap. They will need to SHOW that they are going to launch in a big way, not just say it. I have heard a big launch is due in January. I don’t think they are going to launch Chicago just for you unfortunately.

BUT, when Sprint does launch they will very quickly surpass Verizon.

[lgmayka]

What you may not understand is that for Verizon to upgrade their network to EV-DO is much harder than it is for Sprint.
...
The part you may not understand is that that it is much easier for Sprint to upgrade their towers.
This is an interesting claim. Do you have any evidence or technical basis for it?

[3G Cables]

This is an interesting claim. Do you have any evidence or technical basis for it?

Absolutely. When I was being trained as a tech for Sprint, one of the first things they told us about Sprints network is that is was built from day 1 with true 3G in mind. True 3G is EV-DO and EV-DV. I don’t remember exactly what they said but I THINK they said that to upgrade their towers all they needed to do was make a firmware upgrade or replace a PC card in the tower or CO. Something to that effect. Then when asked about Verizon (the only other large scale CDMA network) they instructor stated that Verizon’s towers were not built from the ground up to offer 3G data services and for them to upgrade they need to do major hardware upgrades to each tower. Why do you think they are taking to long to deploy? It has been over a year since they started to upgrade their towers (not the actual launch date which came later) since they launched in San Diego and Washington DC and they only have 14 markets launched now. That is SLOW.

[that_kid]

Wow that's interesting especially when I know that sprint and verizon are using the same equipment in many of their markets, same BTS's different bands. Plus i've been told that sprint doesn't have any intentions on doing ev-dv. Hell they didn't want to do ev-do until verizon forced their hand. Upgrade wise both carriers can do it in the same time, but each carrier has different tests they want to focus on.

[3G Cables]

Wow that's interesting especially when I know that sprint and verizon are using the same equipment in many of their markets, same BTS's different bands. Plus i've been told that sprint doesn't have any intentions on doing ev-dv. Hell they didn't want to do ev-do until verizon forced their hand. Upgrade wise both carriers can do it in the same time, but each carrier has different tests they want to focus on.

That’s strange I don’t know why a certified experienced Sprint trainer would make that up?

[sfhub]

Plus i've been told that sprint doesn't have any intentions on doing ev-dv. Hell they didn't want to do ev-do until verizon forced their hand.That doesn't sound right. As I recall Sprint wanted to skip EV-DO and go
straight to EV-DV, but later found the time tables too long and went with
shorter term EV-DO (that part was partially because of Verizon)

[3G Cables]

That doesn't sound right. As I recall Sprint wanted to skip EV-DO and go
straight to EV-DV, but later found the time tables too long and went with
shorter term EV-DO (that part was partially because of Verizon)

You are exactly right. Sprint wanted to go straight to EV-DV but was forced by Verizon to launce EV-DO instead. So why didn’t Sprint just launch EV-DV instead of EV-DO? Because there is a BIG difference between the two and much more elaborate equipment is needed for EV-DV.

[that_kid]

That doesn't sound right. As I recall Sprint wanted to skip EV-DO and go
straight to EV-DV, but later found the time tables too long and went with
shorter term EV-DO (that part was partially because of Verizon)

sorry about that I meant EV-DO

[that_kid]

That’s strange I don’t know why a certified experienced Sprint trainer would make that up?

To put it into the techs mind that other carriers are not doing what they are doing. I was a sprint tech for a few years and heard the same thing that you did, yet when I did some contract work for verizon wireless I found that their equipment was the same as what I was working on at sprint. Of course like sprint different markets have different vendors so not all of sprint and verizon markets are the same. I do know that in many markets the equipment is very much the same. Sprint uses outdoor equipment where verizon uses the indoor version of that equipment because they use shelters in most places.

[3G Cables]

To put it into the techs mind that other carriers are not doing what they are doing. I was a sprint tech for a few years and heard the same thing that you did, yet when I did some contract work for verizon wireless I found that their equipment was the same as what I was working on at sprint. Of course like sprint different markets have different vendors so not all of sprint and verizon markets are the same. I do know that in many markets the equipment is very much the same. Sprint uses outdoor equipment where verizon uses the indoor version of that equipment because they use shelters in most places.

I think there is a lot more to it than that. They are both CDMA networks but that is where the comparisons end. I could have sworn I read that Sprint uses completely different equipment (including different manufacture). I was trained at the Anaheim corporate center. This was a major training center and I don’t think that they are misinformed.

[that_kid]

It's more like mind control, I've been to training with sprint for their motorola equipment as well as their lucent equipment and I've been through training for other reasons directly with motorla as well as when I worked for lucent building the bts's that got shipped to sprint and verizon. Anyhow there's very little equipment difference besides the frequency between them. As a matter of fact I know a few engineers from motorola who worked on sprint turnups and are now working with verizon getting their ev-do rollout going. I was just as surprised as you when I found out how similar the two networks were. In a way that was good as it allowed me to transvere jobs between networks. Either way you look at it, EV-DO is going to be great once sprint deploys it nationwide.

[gemsmaker]

Samsung a few days ago in online articles has reported that they've been shipping 3G EV-DO type phones to both Verizon and Sprint for 1st quarter 2005 stuff. So apparently Verizon will have the *phone side* turned on in their markets sometime first quarter 2005 and apparently Sprint wil have SOMETHING SOMEWHERE turned on 1st quarter 2005.

If Sprint doesn't get more information on there, however, they're going to lose their larger higher paying business-oriented individual customers like me in DROVES to Verizon. I'm sure that it's already been happening for MONTHS in these 17 cities where Verizon has launched the data side of evDO. Hell, if I lived in San Diego, I would have dropped Sprint like a STD last year the day Verizon first rolled it out.

[gemsmaker]

By the way, your "mind control" post was spot on as they say. It's just silly corporate "groupthink" being endlessly repeated by parrots with no life outside the company. Makes them "feel better" about themselves when they think they're part of the "biggest, baddest and best" team.

Whether it's true or not.

[gemsmaker]

By the way, I'm going to explore possibly shorting Sprint stock. And, again, I'm a current 2+ year customer! Sheesh.

[TECH]

they say that there r going tolaunch it by the end of this month

[3G Cables]

they say that there r going tolaunch it by the end of this month

Please give us a reference of that Tech otherwise it is hearsay.

Wow kid, I didn’t realize that. I feel duped by Sprint now (at least the instructor and corporate side of things). I still like Sprint in general. It will take more than a loss of EV-DO for me to drop Sprint.

[lgmayka]

I feel duped by Sprint now (at least the instructor and corporate side of things).
To be fair: Is it possible that this instructor was referring to software, and not hardware? It has often been claimed--rightly or wrongly--that Sprint's network is easier to administer because it was built from the ground up with one design, whereas Verizon has taken possession of a patchwork owned by various former carriers (everyone from Bell Atlantic to General Telephone) and--supposedly--still struggles with the Operations, Administration, Maintenance, and Provisioning (OAM&P) differences between those old networks.

[3G Cables]

To be fair: Is it possible that this instructor was referring to software, and not hardware? It has often been claimed--rightly or wrongly--that Sprint's network is easier to administer because it was built from the ground up with one design, whereas Verizon has taken possession of a patchwork owned by various former carriers (everyone from Bell Atlantic to General Telephone) and--supposedly--still struggles with the Operations, Administration, Maintenance, and Provisioning (OAM&P) differences between those old networks.

Actually, that sounds a lot more like what he said. I think then it comes down to whatever protocol they use. I believe you are correct. Each of Sprint’s towers are Sprints towers and not someone else’s which to me seems like it would be much easier to upgrade whether it be hardware or software.

[topher694]

Hardware or sotware Sprint and Verizon both have to go throught the same process to upgrade to DO. Wherever 1xRTT is already launched at least. The main portion of that is adding cards to each and every BTS that will support DO (which becomes very expensive) and some relatively minor hardware and software upgrades at the switches depending on the vendor and the switches configuration. The only place it may be harder for Verizon is where the are using 800mhz in a densely populated area. DO requires it's own frequency (carrier) and 800 has less available than 1900 (8 carriers vs 12 I think), so if you were in an area where Verizon was using its full spectrum for voice it might be a pain in the butt to clear frequency for DO. However I think this would be a very rare problem.

Sprint and Verizon both use the same vendors and equipment for the most part.

Sprint was planning on going directly to DV, but rumor is now that DV may not even happen... for Sprint or anybody. It seems that the latest push by the vendors is to go to EV-DO relA (same data speeds as DV would've been) and then move the voice calls to the DO network by using VoIP. But that's just the rumor...

[DigitalFreik]

if I lived in San Diego, I would have dropped Sprint like a STD last year the day Verizon first rolled it out.

Only problem is that up until recently, Verizon wouldnt let regular customers sign up for their "Broadband Access" and still only offer data cards. I tried to sign up for it (for trial purposes), but was told without a TaxID number or corporate sponsership I was not able to get it. And this was only 6 months ago. The few people that I know using Verizon's EV-DO love it when its available. Apparently it's only installed at a subset of their available towers. I am not sure what percentages or anything, but very few residential areas are being serviced in SoCal last I looked (maps=misleading).

As for installation, Verizon major obstacle thus far has been getting their 1900MHz equipment running. They only run their EV-DO over 1900MHz, leaving their existing 800MHz infrastructure fully available to voice and 1x (again this is info I know only for SoCal).

Sprint too will only be launching their EV-DO service on towers that currently have high data MOU's or ones they expect to have new demand (schools, high-tech business, etc). Additionally Sprint does not plan to upgrade the remaining 1x towers until EV-DV is ready to be installed in mid-2006. So, don't expect to see claims of Sprint running full EV-DO across its entire network like they have with 1x.

[that_kid]

Don't feel bad, I went through the same thing :eek:, still like you said it'll take more than ev-do to make me leave sprint although they have tried my nervers a few times. Still the plan that I have can't be beat and sprint has worked everywhere I go. Most of my family and friends use sprint as well and as long as you don't have to call "customer I don't care" you're good. I look forward to the EV-DO rollout there are soo many things I can do with those data speeds :hee:

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