[Pre] Apple to Sue Palm Over Palm Pre

[ame]

Interesting post by Dieter. I personally think Apple doesn't have a leg to hop on, but whatever. I think they're just pissed that Ruby left and ended up going to Palm.

http://www.precentral.net/apple-suiting-sue-palm-over-pre

[yabo]

1 word for Apple: Meh.

You can't copyright the ubiquitous. If you can, I'm all about copyrighting blinking. All of you will PAY ME.

[YPG]

Apple is being a hater lol.

[jschu22]

The author is making a lot of inferences without much fact, dont you think? Based completely upon that linked article (meaning I dont know if there are any quotes left out), I think Apple COO Tim Cook was very non-specific and said what any executive in that situation would say. You can say Apple is "hating" or running scared, but you would likely be jumping to conclusions and showing a bias towards Palm here. Additionally, the Multi-touch functionality is not ubiquitous and there must be something to the patent because it would have shown up in another device before now.

For the record- I will be buying a Pre when it comes out, so save your dismissal of my views as some Apple sympathizer please.

[Awake]

Any lawsuit will cost Apple more money than Palm, it will be free advertising/publicity for Palm. Microsoft's Surface uses multi-touch is Apple going to sue them as well? If I am not mistaken, doesn't Palm have Patents it could pull out and go after Apple?! This just tells me that Apple was completely blinded by the Pre and that the next iphone will be more of the same. I believe Apple got complacent and arrogant, they truly believed they had the end-all be-all device.

[yabo]

For the record- I will be buying a Pre when it comes out, so save your dismissal of my views as some Apple sympathizer please.

Also for the record, I'm not a hater of Apple. I typed that message (and this one) on my Macbook.(is it strange that Macbook is not a recognized word ON my Mac?) I'm also going to be buying a Pre the minute it's available.

I seriously think, though, that the UI is something that they can't just scream foul on, as there are instances of all kinds of UI that use swipes, etc. They're in movies, on TV, and phones/computers past, present and future all use them.

But, I don't think they're attacking multi touch either. I think they're just firing a shot over the bow, as it were.

[Awake]

Something else crossed my mind, Apple filling for a Patent(s) does not mean they will be granted said Patent. Patent claims are still subject to review and challenge. If a Patent is granted it can be challenged, and that can take years. In a nutshell, filling for a Patent does not mean you have a Patent on the technology.

[jschu22]

Hold on a minute everyone. Like I said in my post, where are these specifics that point to Apple doing this or that? I think there's a lot of jumping the gun here, but thats not surprising as half of the Pre threads are populated with statements that make it seem as thought the device has been out for 3 months already.

[PhoneFreak]

I'm not worried. I'll still own it when it comes out and let them "possibly" create a lawsuit over it.

Did Apple go after Microsoft over their "Gadgets" in Vista ripping off the "Widgets" from Apple OSX ?


I'll stick to worrying about things I can control and not worrying about things I can't :)

Like what plan will I choose if they make me change it to own the PRE.

[jschu22]

I'm not worried. I'll still own it when it comes out and let them "possibly" create a lawsuit over it.

Did Apple go after Microsoft over their "Gadgets" in Vista ripping off the "Widgets" from Apple OSX ?


I'll stick to worrying about things I can control and not worrying about things I can't :)

Like what plan will I choose if they make me change it to own the PRE.

Good point.

[udratherbme]

Hahaaaa.. you all make good points, if Apple sues Palm if has to go after MS, and I am not sure on history but who had the first touchscreen device not talking phones here just a device...

[ScrapMaker]

Apple could sue, or otherwise throw legal trouble towards Palm... possibly delaying the Pre's launch. If they decided that any of the gestures, or something else was "too similar," then they could definitely do this.

I don't think they will. Their reputation would be a bit tarnished afterwards, plus imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, right? ;)

[yabo]

Hahaaaa.. you all make good points, if Apple sues Palm if has to go after MS, and I am not sure on history but who had the first touchscreen device not talking phones here just a device...

I'm not sure, but, I'm still using my Motorola A1200 for my test phone at work and that thing is a good 3-4 years old now. Gotta love a phone named the "Ming".

[d12a60n]

I'm assuming - since Palm had a number of engineers formerly from Apple (including Jon Rubenstein) - they would cover their bases and know exactly what they can design and not have to infringe on whatever copyrights Apple has. But who knows? It will be a battle between the patent lawyers.

[Dunpeal]

Any lawsuit will cost Apple more money than Palm, it will be free advertising/publicity for Palm. Microsoft's Surface uses multi-touch is Apple going to sue them as well?

BINGO !!! Haha..Sprint wont need to pay for advertisement, Apple will do it for them

[ScrapMaker]

BINGO !!! Haha..Sprint wont need to pay for advertisement, Apple will do it for them

Being sued costs just about as much money as suing someone.

If I had to guess, I'd say Apple has a bit more money than Palm right now--but I still don't think that Apple would do it...

[PhoneFreak]

more speculation.....

http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20090123/palm-to-apple-bring-it/

[yabo]

more speculation.....

http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20090123/palm-to-apple-bring-it/

PWNT

That is all.

[ScrapMaker]

Apple is not foolish enough to do this.

[ame]

I'm not worried. I'll still own it when it comes out and let them "possibly" create a lawsuit over it.

Did Apple go after Microsoft over their "Gadgets" in Vista ripping off the "Widgets" from Apple OSX ?


No bec Jobs/the Woz own just as much of Windows as Gates owns of Apple. They aren't that stupid to go after each other.

[laursifer]

I think there's a lot of jumping the gun here, but thats not surprising as half of the Pre threads are populated with statements that make it seem as thought the device has been out for 3 months already.

AMEN.

If anything, I see this whole thing this way: Apple wouldn't get anywhere with this lawsuit, BUT it's a way for them to try and make a new device, that is clearly going to be a big hit (kind of already is), look bad.

I love my Apple products that I have, but I'm not one of those "fangirls," so I don't support everything Apple has and does just because it's Apple.

[jschu22]

PWNT

That is all.

What would you have expected them to say "Ahh ****, they caught on faster than we expected. We're screwed now, RUN!"?

[d12a60n]

The media is ridiculous for taking a press conference quote and speculating that legal actions will be taken based on one question. I think they were running out of things to write about the Pre (since it's features etc have been covered everywhere else)- so why not try to instigate some more friction between Apple and Palm? Next there will be an article about how Ruby used office supplies taken from Apple and used them at Palm...something lame like that. :)

[jschu22]

The media is ridiculous for taking a press conference quote and speculating that legal actions will be taken based on one question. I think they were running out of things to write about the Pre (since it's features etc have been covered everywhere else)- so why not try to instigate some more friction between Apple and Palm? Next there will be an article about how Ruby used office supplies taken from Apple and used them at Palm...something lame like that. :)

Good idea. Staples/Office Depot could get in on it too by saying he used their property in the commission of a crime.

[gedansky]

Doesn't Palm have patents on the whole touch screen/digitizer technology? They had the first touch screen PDA. Doesn't that give them rights, in perpetuity to the core concept, even if people make improvements upon it?

So, couldn't they go after everyone who every made a PDA without licensing with them first?

Just sayin'

[jschu22]

Doesn't Palm have patents on the whole touch screen/digitizer technology? They had the first touch screen PDA. Doesn't that give them rights, in perpetuity to the core concept, even if people make improvements upon it?

So, couldn't they go after everyone who every made a PDA without licensing with them first?

Just sayin'

No. Heres a link with some info on touch screens and even though the article is challenged in a few ways its pretty obvious that the technology predates Palm by at least a couple of decades. Where Apple could have a leg to stand on is multi-touch technology. I'd look into it more... but I really dont feel like it right now.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touch_screen

[d12a60n]

Where Apple could have a leg to stand on is multi-touch technology. I'd look into it more... but I really dont feel like it right now.


It wouldn't be the technology that Apple would be able to stand on would it? I mean Apple didn't even develop it. It's companies like Bell Labs (Microsoft Surface) and Cypress semiconductor (Pre's capacitive touch) that developed the multi-touch technology - I think Apple's argument would be more on the "gestures" of using the technology.

[jschu22]

It wouldn't be the technology that Apple would be able to stand on would it? I mean Apple didn't even develop it. It's companies like Bell Labs (Microsoft Surface) and Cypress semiconductor (Pre's capacitive touch) that developed the multi-touch technology - I think Apple's argument would be more on the "gestures" of using the technology.

I'm not sure, but it sounds like six of one, half-dozen of the other because multi touch and gestures would seem to go hand in hand to me. Either way, Palm doesn't have any patents that Apple is infringing on. If they did- *** have they been waiting for in enforcing them? I have no facts to back it up but I'd be very confused why other manufacturers haven't used some sort of multi touch in their devices if Apple doesnt in fact hold a patent there.

[ScrapMaker]

If Apple sues, it will only further my opinion that the legal system needs to be dismantled completely.

So many frivilous lawsuits.

Does every company that makes a mouse, or trackball, or anything for that matter, have to pay royalties to the person who first made an input device?

Microsoft has been doing, (a much better version of,) multi-touch for years...

[ManUtd7]

I'm not sure, but it sounds like six of one, half-dozen of the other because multi touch and gestures would seem to go hand in hand to me. Either way, Palm doesn't have any patents that Apple is infringing on. If they did- *** have they been waiting for in enforcing them? I have no facts to back it up but I'd be very confused why other manufacturers haven't used some sort of multi touch in their devices if Apple doesnt in fact hold a patent there.

It has more to do with the SW coding within the given OS. So while the Storm is technically capable of multi-touch, RIM did not put the time in (or did not figure out how) to implement the code within their existing OS. Now if you go over to TechCrunch Mobile you will see that someone came up with a hack to enable multi-touch on the G1.

[ilovetrains]

No. Heres a link with some info on touch screens and even though the article is challenged in a few ways its pretty obvious that the technology predates Palm by at least a couple of decades. Where Apple could have a leg to stand on is multi-touch technology. I'd look into it more... but I really dont feel like it right now.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touch_screen

The Wiki link does not say it, but I think the first touch screen PDA was actually the Apple Newton. years ahead of its time.

I also read an article that the company that produces the multi-touch screen has the patent, not apple, and it is availble in other devices.

[ScrapMaker]

It has more to do with the SW coding within the given OS. So while the Storm is technically capable of multi-touch, RIM did not put the time in (or did not figure out how) to implement the code within their existing OS. Now if you go over to TechCrunch Mobile you will see that someone came up with a hack to enable multi-touch on the G1.

It's not full multi-touch, at least, not the way Apple's works. Limited based on direction, finger-location, etc...

Not sure if that is still a coding limitation, but from what I had read, it was a limitation in the capacitive screen....

Seriously, I don't see how Apple can patent allowing two inputs on a screen... the gestures are just natural.

Someone should sue Apple for having a mouse... because you move the cursor from one spot to another on the screen...

ridiculous...

[cwfluke]

Someone should sue Apple for having a mouse... because you move the cursor from one spot to another on the screen...

ridiculous...

I agree - but that's how things are these days. Everyone sues everyone and it doesn't matter if you have anything to stand on or not and there are certain things you just can't "patent". That's like Ford patenting the steering wheel. If you could patent anything - then Apple would rule the world apparently.

[ScrapMaker]

I agree - but that's how things are these days. Everyone sues everyone and it doesn't matter if you have anything to stand on or not and there are certain things you just can't "patent". That's like Ford patenting the steering wheel. If you could patent anything - then Apple would rule the world apparently.

Yes, they are sneaky like that.

The moment I saw that Apple purposely made their systems hard/impossible to upgrade, was the moment I got on the hate train.

I've saved probably $10,000 in the last 10 years by going PC.

[ilovetrains]

Yes, they are sneaky like that.

The moment I saw that Apple purposely made their systems hard/impossible to upgrade, was the moment I got on the hate train.

I've saved probably $10,000 in the last 10 years by going PC.

Funny I was thinking I have saved money (less than half, not sure how someone spends that on computers anyway) in the past 10 years by having Apple.

[ScrapMaker]

Funny I was thinking I have saved money (less than half, not sure how someone spends that on computers anyway) in the past 10 years by having Apple.

I upgrade bi-annually... usually video cards and processors.

With a Mac, you used to have to buy a whole new system... and I know that some of that is still true.

Not sure how you can save money by going Mac! :) Curious to see how...

[yabo]

I upgrade bi-annually... usually video cards and processors.

With a Mac, you used to have to buy a whole new system... and I know that some of that is still true.

Not sure how you can save money by going Mac! :) Curious to see how...

Easy.. Macs aren't for gaming! I just dropped about 1500 on my gaming rig (and I STILL want a new case (HAF 932)), and I'm still using my (nearly) 3 year old Macbook. My Mac has cost me a total of about 150 for ram and a new HD. I need a new superdrive, and I can ebay that for like 50. So... 2 years for 1500 or 3 for 200?

[parazitu22]

Funny I was thinking I have saved money (less than half, not sure how someone spends that on computers anyway) in the past 10 years by having Apple.

Not to diss Apple or anything, but how exactly did you save money by buying apple products? Even apple admits that their products are "premium" so they charge a "premium price". And don't tell my because of upgrading less often, because a 7 year old XP machine will run just as fast if not faster then a 7 year old mac.

[ScrapMaker]

I guess this thread had no choice but to turn into an Apple-versus-the-world argument/defense... especially if they actually start a legal snafu...

[Show]

BINGO !!! Haha..Sprint wont need to pay for advertisement, Apple will do it for them Yeah and with Sprint cutting what 8000 jobs they need all of the free advertising that they can get, Now if ONLY they could release the Pre before May or June.

Click here. (http://tech.yahoo.com/news/ap/20090126/ap_on_hi_te/sprint_nextel_job_cuts)

[ScrapMaker]

Yeah and with Sprint cutting what 8000 jobs they need all of the free advertising that they can get, Now if ONLY they could release the Pre before May or June.

Click here. (http://tech.yahoo.com/news/ap/20090126/ap_on_hi_te/sprint_nextel_job_cuts)

damn, cutting 8,000 jobs? I could say something about SERO right now ;)

[d12a60n]

I'm not sure, but it sounds like six of one, half-dozen of the other because multi touch and gestures would seem to go hand in hand to me. Either way, Palm doesn't have any patents that Apple is infringing on. If they did- *** have they been waiting for in enforcing them? I have no facts to back it up but I'd be very confused why other manufacturers haven't used some sort of multi touch in their devices if Apple doesnt in fact hold a patent there.

Good point Jschu22!

[jschu22]

Yes, they are sneaky like that.

The moment I saw that Apple purposely made their systems hard/impossible to upgrade, was the moment I got on the hate train.


I guess this thread had no choice but to turn into an Apple-versus-the-world argument/defense... especially if they actually start a legal snafu...

Lets be honest- your first statement here kind of exemplifies the second, doesn't it? I'm not trying to flame you, just saying that the words "hate train" don't exactly scream objectivity.

[ScrapMaker]

Lets be honest- your first statement here kind of exemplifies the second, doesn't it? I'm not trying to flame you, just saying that the words "hate train" don't exactly scream objectivity.

Whoa Nelly!! 'Objective' is the last word to describe how I feel towards Apple. I have a personal hatred for Apple, and the only reason I have an Apple product is because it was the only kind that even half-assed worked with my car stereo.

I despise their business practices--especially this latest fiasco with suing the Mac-clone people---who are using legit copies of the OS, on their own hardware. I think it's despicable behavior. Combine that with the years of only allowing extremely limited upgrades to their hardware, and the fact that their hardware is inflated at about double the MSRP, makes me 'hate' them even more.

In my eyes, they are the Monster Cable of computing.

[jschu22]

Whoa Nelly!! 'Objective' is the last word to describe how I feel towards Apple. I have a personal hatred for Apple, and the only reason I have an Apple product is because it was the only kind that even half-assed worked with my car stereo.

I despise their business practices--especially this latest fiasco with suing the Mac-clone people---who are using legit copies of the OS, on their own hardware. I think it's despicable behavior. Combine that with the years of only allowing extremely limited upgrades to their hardware, and the fact that their hardware is inflated at about double the MSRP, makes me 'hate' them even more.

In my eyes, they are the Monster Cable of computing.

"Hating" a corporation based solely on not agreeing with their product offerings? I can understand if they were doing something malicious to you or targeted consumers, but isn't this a little ridiculous? I dont like skim milk, but should I hate the dairy farmers that produce it?

Im not even going to acknowledge supporting a company that is using legit software LICENSES, which implicitly prohibit changing their code, which has to be done to install on a different machine.

[ScrapMaker]

"Hating" a corporation based solely on not agreeing with their product offerings? I can understand if they were doing something malicious to you or targeted consumers, but isn't this a little ridiculous? I dont like skim milk, but should I hate the dairy farmers that produce it?

Im not even going to acknowledge supporting a company that is using legit software LICENSES, which implicitly prohibit changing their code, which has to be done to install on a different machine.

Most of my anger stems from Apple having a monopoly on Mac-compatible hardware---yet no one does anything about it... while MS gets sued multiple times just for having IE pre-installed... (which every other OS does as well.)

Basically, it's a double standard that doesn't hold Apple accountable for anything.

What if Microsoft decided to, all-the-sudden, ONLY allow Windows to work on "Windows PCs."

There is no what if, because the world would tear Microsoft apart... every court in the world would take a piece of them until there was nothing left.

Yet, Apple can do it no problem...

No offense intended towards Apple users, but I still don't see how anyone, in all of history has "saved money," by going Apple...

[parazitu22]

Most of my anger stems from Apple having a monopoly on Mac-compatible hardware---yet no one does anything about it... while MS gets sued multiple times just for having IE pre-installed... (which every other OS does as well.)

Basically, it's a double standard that doesn't hold Apple accountable for anything.

What if Microsoft decided to, all-the-sudden, ONLY allow Windows to work on "Windows PCs."

There is no what if, because the world would tear Microsoft apart... every court in the world would take a piece of them until there was nothing left.

Yet, Apple can do it no problem...

No offense intended towards Apple users, but I still don't see how anyone, in all of history has "saved money," by going Apple...

While I agree with you in principle, there are some things where you are wrong.

Microsoft would have to manufacture their own hardware for them to be able to have a monopoly on them. All microsoft does is license their software. Hell, if you wanted to, you can start your own PC company and license all of the software you wanted from microsoft. They will gladly sell it to you.

As far as the IE controversy, read up on some history, yes they got sued, but the reason behind it was the shady deals going on with OEMs to only install IE on the machines and BURY Netscape.

I dislike Apple as a company, only because they are control freaks but they give the image of being very open.

[FreddyC]

They just upped the anti ...

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10150436-37.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=Crave

[jschu22]

They just upped the anti ...

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10150436-37.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=Crave

Oh boy. I can't wait to see the posts/threads that this story creates.

"Apple sabotages The Pre"

"My Pre sucks and it's the iPhone's fault"

"Steve Jobs destroys lives- Palm lays off thousands"


*Just for the record- I WANT the Pre to succeed.

[d12a60n]

Just a thought... how will Microsoft respond?

http://www.microsoft.com/surface/product.html#section=The%20Product

[ScrapMaker]

Good, I hope Apple sues, so they can be taken down a peg or two.

or three

[ilovetrains]

Boy you guys are off to the races on the Apple hating, aren't you??

BTW - typing this on an Apple MacBook. It has Windows XP Pro installed...

[ScrapMaker]

Boy you guys are off to the races on the Apple hating, aren't you??

BTW - typing this on an Apple MacBook. It has Windows XP Pro installed...

I'll never understand why anyone would EVER want to install XP on a Macbook...

Then you literally paid 2-3 times more for the same exact machine


:rolleyes:

[ilovetrains]

MacBook $600.00
software to digitally edit photos, video, music - free
Windows XP to VPN into work from my bedroom - 50
Not having to figure out digital editing on a PC - priceless.

[ScrapMaker]

MacBook $600.00
software to digitally edit photos, video, music - free
Windows XP to VPN into work from my bedroom - 50
Not having to figure out digital editing on a PC - priceless.

Since when was a MacBook ever $600?

I didn't think OSX came with advanced editing/authoring tools...

Even still... nothing stops you from buying Photoshop, or using Gimp2, or Audacity...

I have grown fond of Gimp2 and Audacity, myself... and they are completely free.

[Emanon]

I'll never understand why anyone would EVER want to install XP on a Macbook...

Then you literally paid 2-3 times more for the same exact machine


:rolleyes:

Having to run work programs that are Windows only. Run Vista with VMware so I can just have windows in another "space" and use it when needed. The ability to run both operating systems at the same time is nice.

[Emanon]

I also forgot.......

My polar heart rate monitor program is windows only. Wish they had OS X versions of these programs but until they do having the ability to use both is nice.

[SL-10]

I'm not sure, but it sounds like six of one, half-dozen of the other because multi touch and gestures would seem to go hand in hand to me. Either way, Palm doesn't have any patents that Apple is infringing on. If they did- *** have they been waiting for in enforcing them? I have no facts to back it up but I'd be very confused why other manufacturers haven't used some sort of multi touch in their devices if Apple doesnt in fact hold a patent there.

Apple does have a patent on it touchscreen.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=multi-touch&s2=multitouch&OS=multi-touch+AND+multitouch&RS=multi-touch+AND+multitouch

[ScrapMaker]

Apple does have a patent on it touchscreen.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=multi-touch&s2=multitouch&OS=multi-touch+AND+multitouch&RS=multi-touch+AND+multitouch

Wow, that patent describes what MANY other companies have been using for a long time now... almost word-for-word, describes Microsoft's Surface.

I don't think Apple has a leg to stand on here... but that doesn't mean they can play the legal game and delay the launch of this phone...

Hopefully Sprint releases this thing ASAP before any legal troubles start!

[ilovetrains]

Since when was a MacBook ever $600?

I didn't think OSX came with advanced editing/authoring tools...

Even still... nothing stops you from buying Photoshop, or using Gimp2, or Audacity...

I have grown fond of Gimp2 and Audacity, myself... and they are completely free.


There is this place called eBay...lol.

I am sure you can list dozens of programs that I have never heard of and laud how great they are at editing this, that and whatever. The point is, no one else makes an out of the box solution like Apple does. I can take the card from my camera, insert it in my mac and edit the photos (or video), print the photos, make a DVD with menus of the photos, make a webpage of the photos and upload it the apple server. More importantly, so can my 6 year old.

[ScrapMaker]

There is this place called eBay...lol.

I am sure you can list dozens of programs that I have never heard of and laud how great they are at editing this, that and whatever. The point is, no one else makes an out of the box solution like Apple does. I can take the card from my camera, insert it in my mac and edit the photos (or video), print the photos, make a DVD with menus of the photos, make a webpage of the photos and upload it the apple server. More importantly, so can my 6 year old.

I'm guessing you aren't too familiar with XP or Vista... they both do that "out-of-the-box."

I was mentioning professional-level software that was totally free.

If you are are just making movies, cropping photos, etc etc, any system can do that, out-of-the-box...

Anyways, back to Apple vs Palm. They really cannot sue. I just saw a page that listed the history of multitouch... Friggin goes back DECADES...

http://www.billbuxton.com/multitouchOverview.html

[Awake]

For those still curious about a so-called Apple lawsuit against Palm, check out this link from engadget:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/apple-vs-palm-the-in-depth-analysis/#continued

[cwfluke]

For those still curious about a so-called Apple lawsuit against Palm, check out this link from engadget:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/apple-vs-palm-the-in-depth-analysis/#continued

Just came here to post that article and you beat me! Read through it and it seems as if they both have plenty to lose if they decide to go at each other. It actually seemed apparent that Apple might have much more to lose than Palm. Apple's established and the royalties would be huge whilst Palm is trying to resurrect themselves from the proverbial dead and haven't sold the first Pre. Is it worth it to Apple to stop the Pre from being made or even just delay it if they would have to pay Palm hundreds of millions of dollars in patent royalties that they stole from Palm to make the iPhone?

[Awake]

Just came here to post that article and you beat me! Read through it and it seems as if they both have plenty to lose if they decide to go at each other. It actually seemed apparent that Apple might have much more to lose than Palm. Apple's established and the royalties would be huge whilst Palm is trying to resurrect themselves from the proverbial dead and haven't sold the first Pre. Is it worth it to Apple to stop the Pre from being made or even just delay it if they would have to pay Palm hundreds of millions of dollars in patent royalties that they stole from Palm to make the iPhone?

IT is very apparent Apple stands to lose much more, iphone fanatics have been blinded by the so-called glow from Steve Jobs they weren't able to see that Palm developed many features on the iphone. Apple has no grounds to stop or delay the Pre. Any patent that is granted still has to be certified, meaning a sea of lawyers will look it over, then you have the inevitable legal challenges. If anything this could end up in the courts for years. Let's say Palm were to lose a lawsuit to Apple, by that time there may very well be 2, 3 or 4 million plus Pre's on the street, that's a conservative estimate! ;)

[ScrapMaker]

Let's say Palm were to lose a lawsuit to Apple, by that time there may very well be 2, 3 or 4 million plus Pre's on the street, that's a conservative estimate! ;)

starting on the fifteenth, right? ;)

[Awake]

starting on the fifteenth, right? ;)

Are you being sarcastic?

[ScrapMaker]

Are you being sarcastic?

Nope, just hopeful... why, has that date been completely negated?

[Awake]

Nope, just hopeful... why, has that date been completely negated?

Well it hasn't been completely negated as you see there still are folks mentioning they were told by a Sprint rep the Pre will launch in Feb. Now there are those who say otherwise, I wouldn't call it a complete negation.

[ScrapMaker]

Well it hasn't been completely negated as you see there still are folks mentioning they were told by a Sprint rep the Pre will launch in Feb. Now there are those who say otherwise, I wouldn't call it a complete negation.

I think I can hold out 'til it releases... but I feel like an addict, and I need my fix... I'm starting to get the shakes...

[Awake]

I think I can hold out 'til it releases... but I feel like an addict, and I need my fix... I'm starting to get the shakes...

Isn't it a shame what technology has done to us?... There will be thousands among thousands who will skip work or come back at least an hour late from lunch to stand in line for the Pre. I think the frenzy has already started, every single iphone owner I know wants the Pre, and they want it BADLY!!

[d12a60n]

Isn't it a shame what technology has done to us?... There will be thousands among thousands who will skip work or come back at least an hour late from lunch to stand in line for the Pre. I think the frenzy has already started, every single iphone owner I know wants the Pre, and they want it BADLY!!

I know what you mean! Worse yet - imagine when they release a version that works with the 4G network WIMAX!!! :Popcorn2:

[ScrapMaker]

I thought it was funny when the Palm investor said that this product would specifically appeal to women...

wha? why?

I don't want it being labeled a "chick phone," before I even get my hands on it! :)

[Awake]

I know what you mean! Worse yet - imagine when they release a version that works with the 4G network WIMAX!!! :Popcorn2:

I am hoping the Pre will be the first handset device that can upgrade to Wimax, It would make sense to put a dual EVDO/Wimax chip in the Pre, there is a new Dual EVDO/Wimax USB data modem. Heres the thing, Sprint will be launching Rev-B this year then Rev-C soon after. Someone correct me if I am wrong but, isn't Rev-B 3.5G and Rev-C 4G? An EVDO device can simply upgrade to the higher Rev's via firmware upgrade.

I do remember during a webinar last summer a Sprint official mentioned that Sprint plans to release devices with dual chips starting in the first quarter, we've seen the first in the USB modem.

[ScrapMaker]

I am hoping the Pre will be the first handset device that can upgrade to Wimax, It would make sense to put a dual EVDO/Wimax chip in the Pre, there is a new Dual EVDO/Wimax USB data modem. Heres the thing, Sprint will be launching Rev-B this year then Rev-C soon after. Someone correct me if I am wrong but, isn't Rev-B 3.5G and Rev-C 4G? An EVDO device can simply upgrade to the higher Rev's via firmware upgrade.

I do remember during a webinar last summer a Sprint official mentioned that Sprint plans to release devices with dual chips starting in the first quarter, we've seen the first in the USB modem.

That would be cool--but I doubt it, since I think they would have mentioned that as a core feature... but either way, with only revA, I'd still want this thing ASAP... hell, even if it's buggy and requires updates ;) gimmmmeeeEEE!!!

[d12a60n]

I don't want it being labeled a "chick phone," before I even get my hands on it! :)

:laughing:

Are they going to release a pink one or something? A special bedazzled version?

[GolpherZX]

As far as 3G and EVDO, 3G is everything EVDO and the TIA standards. However the statement about 4G is not 100% accurate. The 4G networks that will be "Clear" are based on the WIMAX 802.16e (Mobile WIMAX) standard. So the chipsets are different, but from what I understand most devices that will have a WIMAX chipset will have a 3G chipset included as well to fall back on.

[sfhub]

I thought it was funny when the Palm investor said that this product would specifically appeal to women...

wha? why?

I don't want it being labeled a "chick phone," before I even get my hands on it! :)
How do you know the investor didn't mean "chick magnet"? :)

[ScrapMaker]

How do you know the investor didn't mean "chick magnet"? :)

If she likes me for my phone, then I don't want her..

Now, if she likes me for my phone, my car, my house, and my good looks... then HELL YEAH... at least, for a week or so...

psycho girls are hot!!1










oxymoron? ;)

[jschu22]

Sorry to interrupt but theres something that confuses me a bit. With Palm holding so many patents that the iPhone appears to infringe upon, why would Palm have been sitting around all these months/years not enforcing them? Too busy counting their money? It's not even specifically about Apple because other manufacturers are crossing the line as well- BlackBerries have adjusted to ambient light for years, just to name one. It's just odd that a company that has been struggling, to put it mildly, for a while would not try to go after some easy money... if they really have a case.

A possible reason for this is that Palm might already be receiving royalties from others for these patents. I'd like to think that this scenario was considered by those covering this "story", but this possibility isn't very exciting therefor wouldn't increase a web site's hits.

[Park]

Sorry to interrupt but theres something that confuses me a bit. With Palm holding so many patents that the iPhone appears to infringe upon, why would Palm have been sitting around all these months/years not enforcing them? Too busy counting their money? It's not even specifically about Apple because other manufacturers are crossing the line as well- BlackBerries have adjusted to ambient light for years, just to name one. It's just odd that a company that has been struggling, to put it mildly, for a while would not try to go after some easy money... if they really have a case.

A possible reason for this is that Palm might already be receiving royalties from others for these patents. I'd like to think that this scenario was considered by those covering this "story", but this possibility isn't very exciting therefor wouldn't increase a web site's hits.

The other reason is that Palm is afraid that their patents wouldn't hold up in court. For a struggling company such as theirs, it would be extremely risky to initiate a patent lawsuit because if they loose, they would be out a lot of cash AND they'd lose the patent. Palm simply can't afford to do that.

[Darkflame808]

Another thing to consider is that palm might be holding out on enforcing them for because they could be using it as a trump card should apple pursue them in court.

Also, palm has a lot to gain by waiting it out. Apple iphone has been a phenomenal success. If palm goes after them now then you potentially have two law suits on your hands...This means more money lost for palm.

If they won however that would mean that apple would have to pay royalties for each device sold. Which means big $ for palm. If they lost then it would give a severe blow to palm since apple just invalidated all their patents.

Now palm can sit in the shadows and develop their product to the best of their abilities. Then release it and when apple cries foul they go to court once. You have one judge to deal with.

Apple cries foul. Palm cries foul.
The judge can either say to both of them stop crying, support creativity, have a nice day. Palm wins, apple cries.

The judge can say You both dipping in each others territory Apple, pay palm for their royalties or patch your product, Palm do the same.

Then palm can say "But judge, you can't patch the fact that the iphone was originally released with a dock" we want royalties for the 4 million iphones out there. And there's no garauntee that people will apply these newer patches to remove airplain mode, auto backlighting, or any of our other patents. We demand royalties for that too.

Then apple will say "They should pay royalties too since there's no garauntee that they users will update their software"

Palm jumps in "No worries judge, our phones automatically receive updates. Everyones phones will have the infringing features removed automatically".

Then palm has a phone that's still great while cashing in a settlement from apple. Then all future updates from apple will be dumbed down and their UI will be left with patches and holes in the interface all because apple got pissy over multitouch.

It's better for apple to use their money to bring the whining to the table then have the beans spilled then as opposed to palm trying to use what it's got left to go after apple instead of focusing that into their product.

The sales of the Pre should provide palm with a buffer of cash to fight apple if apple decides to chance it. Until it goes live. Apple has nothing to go after since palm has been so great and keeping things under wraps.

[Awake]

Sorry to interrupt but theres something that confuses me a bit. With Palm holding so many patents that the iPhone appears to infringe upon, why would Palm have been sitting around all these months/years not enforcing them? Too busy counting their money? It's not even specifically about Apple because other manufacturers are crossing the line as well- BlackBerries have adjusted to ambient light for years, just to name one. It's just odd that a company that has been struggling, to put it mildly, for a while would not try to go after some easy money... if they really have a case.

A possible reason for this is that Palm might already be receiving royalties from others for these patents. I'd like to think that this scenario was considered by those covering this "story", but this possibility isn't very exciting therefor wouldn't increase a web site's hits.

For starters Palm has been working on webOS for two years, any patent suit would not have only pulled resources and funds from webOS development, Innovation Partners might not have invested in Palm. I believe it was a smart business decision on Palms part.

[jschu22]

Rewind to just last month and Palm couldn't make a smart business move to save their life, almost literally. Now they are a genius in the industry for designing the greatest mobile device ever AND positioning themselves to hit a legal home run against a very intelligently run company.

I can't wait till this thing comes out because I'm certainly looking forward to possibly it... and I'm really tired of the tremendous bias.

[Awake]

As I said, going with webOS two years ago was a great business move, 2nd was bringing on Apple defectors, 3rd was going with Sprint (can't beat the voice/data plans) and the 4th great move would be if Palm/Sprint launch it within the next couple of months.

[jschu22]

As I said, going with webOS two years ago was a great business move, 2nd was bringing on Apple defectors, 3rd was going with Sprint (can't beat the voice/data plans) and the 4th great move would be if Palm/Sprint launch it within the next couple of months.

Not a single one of these has paid any quantifiable dividends yet, thats my issue. Yes the Pre looks quite promising, hence my interest in it, but why don't we let it get into the hands of at least one consumer first.

[d12a60n]

Take THAT Apple:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/28978246

[melanie_mbg05]

The whole idea that apple would want to sue over this just makes me LMAO. For one, palm has been around FAR before apple was doing phones, so the idea that now that apple sees competition they want to cry about it?! Isnt that the whole game of technology...someone makes something... someone else makes something better, its the way things evolve! :lol:

[jschu22]

The whole idea that apple would want to sue over this just makes me LMAO. For one, palm has been around FAR before apple was doing phones, so the idea that now that apple sees competition they want to cry about it?! Isnt that the whole game of technology...someone makes something... someone else makes something better, its the way things evolve! :lol:

I think "PALM RULZ!!" would have been a more productive 1st post.

If Alexander Graham Bell came back to life and announced his newest creation- the cell phone, it wouldn't matter how long ago he invented the telephone.

Im not saying anyone stole anything here (Palm/Apple), just saying this post is a little off base.

[cwfluke]

Im not saying anyone stole anything here (Palm/Apple), just saying this post is a little off base.

If your not stealing/cheating then you're not trying! Apple "stole" ideas for the iPhone just like Palm did for the Pre. Filing broad patents and threatening to use your muscle to stop competition is not good for any consumer. Imagine what it would be like if there was only one phone company that was allowed to have a camera in their phone, one company that was allowed to have a QWERTY keypad included in their phone, one phone company that was allowed to even HAVE a touchscreen....the list goes on.

[ScrapMaker]

I honestly don't see Apple getting desparate enough to sue. It will be a world of hurt, for both companies. It will also be a PR nightmare for Apple, looking like the bad guy.

[laursifer]

...but why don't we let it get into the hands of at least one consumer first.

Agreed. The Pre looks amazing. I think we all agree to that. But a lot of the speculation here (well hell, everywhere) has taken a tone of "knowing" instead of what it really is: hoping.

[jschu22]

Agreed. The Pre looks amazing. I think we all agree to that. But a lot of the speculation here (well hell, everywhere) has taken a tone of "knowing" instead of what it really is: hoping.

Ok, NOW you've done it! (Interjecting common sense that is)

[Show]

I honestly don't see Apple getting desparate enough to sue. It will be a world of hurt, for both companies. It will also be a PR nightmare for Apple, looking like the bad guy.

Free publicity for the Pre!!! And for those that didn't hear about the Pre, they will google it.