What happens to iDen and Nextel users after June 26?

[anavrin98]

the fcc has told sprint to clear its old airwaves or else..this has been along time coming and sprint isn't ponying up..

now the fcc is suppose to rplace these older airwaves for sprint but has yet to do so..these airwaves are what the government is going to use for its nationwide "diaster alerts"(floods,tornados,other natural catastrophies,and amber alerts)..so its not entirely sprints fault for delaying..

but if sprint doesn't comply and the FCC holds sprint to this june 26th target date,sprint is saying they won't have enough spectrum to operate its network (i.e.- sprint will die)...very interseting isn't it..

info found on phonescoop.com(a great great info site on everything cell phones) check out their vids for the ever anticipated "diamond","rapheal", and "INSTICT"(sprints answer to iphone)

[Brandon]

Actually it said the network would be crippled not dead.

[anavrin98]

and what do you think end users are gonna do when they can't talk text browse or any of that...they'll leave...hence the dying of sprint

[aau007]

So if Sprint does not comply or cannot comply by 6/26, how do you think Sprint will 'die' on that date?

kk, let me guess. The Fed will plant zapping devices at all the Sprint towers to go off at midnight. All of our cell phones, including Nextel ones will cease to work because there is no Sprint towers left. Then the Fed can now just the airwaves without any jamming.
Of course I am just kidding. :)

I guess I don't get it. How does "won't have enough spectrum to operate its network" lead to the interpration of "(i.e.- sprint will die)"?

[mike068]

When has the our government done any thing on time? Maybe sprint isnt the largest wireless provider in the county but its up there in size. And yes they do cater to the government employees and government personnel also. So the idea of the government just shutting sprint down is unlikely.

[winger]

Chicken Little :td:

[anavrin98]

their not shutting down sprint...spectrum is the "airwaves" used to actually use ur services..if the FCC takes 20 percent(this is just my own figure here) then when all sprints users tr to use their phones it'll be sytem overload...remember the blackout a few yrs ago? our phones only use towers to pass along signals, it all orginates from satellites which is sent to towers,so its not like the power outage is wha completely crippled all networks..its the fact that almost every cell user tried to use their phones at once..the sytems couldn't keep up...and tha was on full spectrum access....remember how hard it was to get through to loved ones a lil bit late on 9/11 its overload...like a brown out when the power goes out but eveyone still has everything on so when it comes on the power goes right back out...

if sprint loses spectrum(and their only the 3rd and 5th largest carrier) their sytem will temp crash with no way to fix it till the goevernment comes through on their end by replacing sprints spectrum that its taking away..

your absolutely right,the government never does anything on time...but its sprint not the government that's not doing what its suppose too...and were talking about the FCC probably the most single handedly powerful entity of the government(next to military)

[Dan]

You are talking about certain frequencies on the 800 MHz band that are used for nextel iDEN services. Sprint PCS is not affected.

The FCC wants sprint to get off certain frequencies by 6/26 to comply with the agreement that got sprint the 2.5 Ghz spectrum, and will remove interference from emergency channels. That is one of many targeted dates, and sprint may get an extension if they can show good faith in the effort to get off those frequencies.

The worst possible effect? Sprint will have to rapidly vacate the iDEN frequencies in some cities, causing possible network congestion and service outages. Since the iDEN service is used by some emergency workers, it is unlikely they will cripple the network in that way.

Sprint just needs to speed up the move off those 800 MHz frequencies. It wont have any effect on CDMA either way.

:wavey:

[BrettW]

whats going to happen is sprint will have less frequencies it can use to carry cellular calls, so users will get rejected texts, and or call cannot be placed/completed errors, because the FCC has not upheld its end of the deal which is sprint vacates X fcc vacates Y and every has a happy day.

and the above will only happen if sprint doesnt fight it further and get it delayed or just ignores the request completely and take the slap on the wrist the FCC will hand out (i say slap on the wrist because FCC fines tend to be so little they are a joke)

[CrazyGuy]

Nah....Sprint won't die. The government won't let it. The government will loan Verizon money to initiate a buy out/takeover of Sprint which would be a fate worse than death and yet another pathetic example of our tax dollars at work.

[aau007]

Besides, my plan includes roaming for free. I will just force my phone to 'roam' and use the VZW towers. :D

[anavrin98]

your wrong on ur iDen theory...iden is then nextel 2way comm network...nextel lost its exclusivity contracts a few yrs ago..hence the explosion is PTT service which every carrier has in some form...so if it was only iden to be affected every carrier would be facing the same issues....yet their not.

[anavrin98]

fcc fines a joke? are u serious? 1million bucks for saying the f word over the airwaves...I bet its a billion a day they don't comply...the government will play hardball on this for sure

[dlichterman]

You guys need to read moderator Dans post......

The agreement made was that they will vacate the iDen network frequencies(800mhz). This will not affect sprint users, only powersource or NEXTEL users will have problems. Sprint uses CDMA vs Nextel's iDen network. Sprint will give up the iDen frequencies(800mhz) as per the agreement but the CDMA network(1900mhz) will not be affected. So stop freaking out unless you use PTT or Nextel.

now.....
your wrong on ur iDen theory...iden is then nextel 2way comm network...nextel lost its exclusivity contracts a few yrs ago..hence the explosion is PTT service which every carrier has in some form...so if it was only iden to be affected every carrier would be facing the same issues....yet their not.

You have to understand that not all networks were set up in the same way, and the other PTT operators do not use iDen except for SouthernLinc. All the other PTT(ATT and Verizon) use their own networks. These other networks DO NOT interfere, hence they are not being requested to be removed.

[anavrin98]

the government is taking over the old UHF for those of us old enough to remember channels 1-13...that's what emergency services really want to use...its called the white spectrum...they have no interest in iden...nextel was in biz for how long? why'd they neer want it gone before?

[Dan]

Yeah, PTT is not iDEN, and iDEN is not PTT. iDEN is a technology like GSM or CDMA that nextel used for their voice and PTT networks. iDEN is only used by nextel and some nextel affiliates in the USA, and a few carriers around the world.

The Nextel frequencies were small swatches of 800 MHz that were in between law enforcement and emergency frequencies. The FCC got nextel to agree to the transition because of the high power Nextel service causing interference with critical emergency 2 way communications, as a way to group all the emergency frequencies together.

Nextel is responsible for the full costs of the transition of iDEN to the new frequencies they get and to move the emergency dispatch to the new frequencies they get. Nextel may be able to move themselves to their new frequencies in some areas, but be hampered with issues on the move of the local emergency dispatch to its new frequency.

So, 6/26 is a targeted date for a certain percentage of the transition to be completed. It's not a drop dead date, but sprint may face fines, etc if they do not meet with that date.

[anavrin98]

Yeah, PTT is not iDEN, and iDEN is not PTT. iDEN is a technology like GSM or CDMA that nextel used for their voice and PTT networks. iDEN is only used by nextel and some nextel affiliates in the USA, and a few carriers around the world.

The Nextel frequencies were small swatches of 800 MHz that were in between law enforcement and emergency frequencies. The FCC got nextel to agree to the transition because of the high power Nextel service causing interference with critical emergency 2 way communications, as a way to group all the emergency frequencies together.

Nextel is responsible for the full costs of the transition of iDEN to the new frequencies they get and to move the emergency dispatch to the new frequencies they get. Nextel may be able to move themselves to their new frequencies in some areas, but be hampered with issues on the move of the local emergency dispatch to its new frequency.

So, 6/26 is a targeted date for a certain percentage of the transition to be completed. It's not a drop dead date, but sprint may face fines, etc if they do not meet with that date.


look all I said was the government wants its stuff back(afterall iden was created for the government anyways) and they seem prepared to play dirty...I NEVER said their closing sprint down..I said they won't have enough spectrum to operate...and someone said "ill just roam and use verizons towers" that's all well and good but im sure the percentage of users with the "data roaming" capabilities is slim...therfore all you'd be able to do is talk and text..and some phones not even text...only newer high end phones have the data roaming capability...see the problem...if you as an end user(thats what were called to cell companies) can't do the things u want with your phone when you want,what are u gonna do? call sprint im guessing...that's fine...but what will they be able to do in this WORSE CASE SCENARIO im laying out here...they gonna offer retention services to all their curtomers? that alone would put them out of buisness...all im proposing is sprint could go down in a blaze of not so glorious fashion...mostly by end users leaving the company for a more stable provider...

[Dan]

"will sprint die on june 26th?"

No.

Wont even cause any change to my CDMA service. And, iDEN wasn't made for the government, but the government found it to be a useful PTT service and uses it for many departments of the federal government for disaster communication.

So, the FCC will be unhappy and slap sprint's hand. That is all.

[TvTech]

Moderator Dan is right, read his posts, all others are just uneducated postings, no offense. Educate yourself before making outrageous assumptions.

I work in the Broadcast industry, so I'm familiar with the whole 2Ghz transition. This news is similar to that and is part of the whole project of Sprint/Nextel giving some of the spectrum to the government in exchange for other spectrum. Where I work were had a transition done to our microwave broadcast equipment, all done by Nextel so we could be switched to the new digital microwave spectrum and we gave up the analog, which the gov't is taking.

So if you use a Nextel iDEN phone then yes, you might have to be concerned, depending on what markets Sprint Nextel is giving spectrum from back to the gov't under the agreement. If you have a Sprint CDMA phone then you are fine, don't worry. It won't affect texts or data.

[1oddmanout]

You are talking about certain frequencies on the 800 MHz band that are used for nextel iDEN services. Sprint PCS is not affected.

The FCC wants sprint to get off certain frequencies by 6/26 to comply with the agreement that got sprint the 2.5 Ghz spectrum, and will remove interference from emergency channels. That is one of many targeted dates, and sprint may get an extension if they can show good faith in the effort to get off those frequencies.

The worst possible effect? Sprint will have to rapidly vacate the iDEN frequencies in some cities, causing possible network congestion and service outages. Since the iDEN service is used by some emergency workers, it is unlikely they will cripple the network in that way.

Sprint just needs to speed up the move off those 800 MHz frequencies. It wont have any effect on CDMA either way.

:wavey:

Best explanation yet. Thanks.

[Shoshana]

the government is taking over the old UHF for those of us old enough to remember channels 1-13...that's what emergency services really want to use...its called the white spectrum...they have no interest in iden...nextel was in biz for how long? why'd they neer want it gone before?


Umm... no, the gov't isn't taking over those channels. I know for a fact that some digital tv stations will be using UHF channels.

I dob;t know the tech stuff, but I do know that.

[neilson]

Umm... no, the gov't isn't taking over those channels. I know for a fact that some digital tv stations will be using UHF channels.

I dob;t know the tech stuff, but I do know that.
Ok, so Sprint iDen will severely be degraded after June 26th and it would be in Sprint's best interest to get QChat phones in the hands of all iDen customers in said markets.

As for Boost, will they be getting QChat phones too?

[Brandon]

They probably will but they should also keep those prepaid wireless plans they have as well.

[anavrin98]

so what about the iden cdma phones on sprint? iden is just the 2way network,it still operates on cdma tech for its web and voice calling though...spectrum is spectrum no matter what...it doesn't matter what u run off it..their using iden and cdma yes..but its still all on the same spectrum...if they make sprint do this before the agencies are ready to swap then sprint will potentially be running slow as a whole..because its still short on spectrum..

as for digital tv using uhf channels...um hate to brreak it to you but that's analog network....extremely costly to convert...tv is putting analog out...hence the feb 19th 2009 date for everyone to have a digital tv...

google just bought a ton of "white spectrum"(uhf) in hopes the government will want to buy it back for more frequencies to use for the emergency system that all carriers just opted into...if not they plan on converting it to digital and using it to provide more spectrum for their new network

[anavrin98]

Analog TV ends forever in February, 2009, then those channels will be available for commercial and public service users. With the development of a new IEEE 802.22 standard for unlicensed use, however, a number of people (especially in rural areas), may be served with broadband access using the “white spaces” between licensed users.



.....see not for tv at all...white spectrum will be used for broadband services...google is trying to buy as much as possible for its own new network but also trying to aquire it for the potential monetary value of it in the future

[dlichterman]

so what about the iden cdma phones on sprint? iden is just the 2way network,it still operates on cdma tech for its web and voice calling though...spectrum is spectrum no matter what...it doesn't matter what u run off it..their using iden and cdma yes..but its still all on the same spectrum...if they make sprint do this before the agencies are ready to swap then sprint will potentially be running slow as a whole..because its still short on spectrum..


I don't usually get mad and start flaming, but seriously dude did you read any of Moderator Dan's posts? The only part that might suffer on the powersource(hybrid) phones is the PTT. The sprint side will not be slow because of iDen dying, they are not the same. iDen is 800mhz, Sprint's CDMA network is 1900mhz. NOT the same "spectrum" as you are calling it. The powersource phones will only have outages of the PTT, everything else is going to be the same. Also note that CDMA works on time slots, not frequency slots as GSM does and is much more capable of a rapid increase in usage, and is not as prone to the "all circuits are busy" kind of stuff.

[Marlon_JB2]

I don't usually get mad and start flaming, but seriously dude did you read any of Moderator Dan's posts? The only part that might suffer on the powersource(hybrid) phones is the PTT. The sprint side will not be slow because of iDen dying, they are not the same. iDen is 800mhz, Sprint's CDMA network is 1900mhz. NOT the same "spectrum" as you are calling it. The powersource phones will only have outages of the PTT, everything else is going to be the same. Also note that CDMA works on time slots, not frequency slots as GSM does and is much more capable of a rapid increase in usage, and is not as prone to the "all circuits are busy" kind of stuff.

:Popcorn2::clap:

Everyone calm down and remember to breathe. Now let's review:

iDEN is a network technology.
CDMA is another network technology.

Sprint runs 1900MHz.
Nextel runs 800MHz.

Nextel phones will be affected.
Sprint phones will NOT be affected.
Hybrid phones will ONLY be affected on the PTT side.

Sprint will face fines if they don't comply.
Sprint will likely just pay.

iDEN is *NOT* the 2Way PTT technology. iDEN PHONES INCLUDE the technology (which is simply NOTHING but trunked radio!) as part of the package. It was created by Motorola, and is based on TDMA.

[TvTech]

Great way of summing it up to Dan & Marlon.

Not that it's necessary anymore, but yes, Government is not getting all the frequencies, but the FCC is in charge of distributing those to TV stations, Radio, and other communications and telecom.

[PowerCell]

What's not being discussed here is the $15.3 billion, plus new spectrum in the 1.8g, that the FCC agreed to compensate Nextel for the migration. This was the result of 6 years of negotiation, and finalized 24 hours prior to Sprint purchasing Nextel on December 18th, 2004.

Nextel was pretty aggressive in their negotiations. Unfortunately, this is just one more thing Sprint has managed to F-up, post merger. Now the FCC doesn't want to hand over the spectrum as Sprint has shown no intent to build out the replacement Nextel network, and no longer has the financial resources to do so. Nextel is now laden with litigation in their lower spectrum as they have never followed through on commitments to relocate SMR carriers as part of the final negotiations with the FCC - again, post merger and under Sprint mis-management.

[Dan]

What's not being discussed here is the $15.3 billion, plus new spectrum in the 1.8g, that the FCC agreed to compensate Nextel for the migration. This was the result of 6 years of negotiation, and finalized 24 hours prior to Sprint purchasing Nextel on December 18th, 2004.

Nextel was pretty aggressive in their negotiations. Unfortunately, this is just one more thing Sprint has managed to F-up, post merger. Now the FCC doesn't want to hand over the spectrum as Sprint has shown no intent to build out the replacement Nextel network, and no longer has the financial resources to do so. Nextel is now laden with litigation in their lower spectrum as they have never followed through on commitments to relocate SMR carriers as part of the final negotiations with the FCC - again, post merger and under Sprint mis-management.

Sprint's mis-management or issues with local providers that were being moved to new frequencies? You can't just simply flip a switch and change a frequency, their are hardware issues to deal with. Their would be some down time for both the other company and the nextel users when a switch is being implemented. Software updates to utilize the new frequency or a full change over in hardware may be required.

Sprint/Nextel is not the only company that has a say in these migrations. You can't simply call up the current user of that frequency range and tell them that they are switching them Sunday night, as they may disagree with the time frame you want to use.

It seems that some agencies have tried to milk the situation, and its costing sprint.

[yappering]

Nextel will be shutting down on June 26.

[PowerCell]

You're getting two issue mixed together. And there would be zero down time. In order to migrate the SMR carriers, they will be supplying new subscriber units and a parallel backbone - so yes, it would be the flip of a switch. In fact, they could even operate in tandem if they chose too...

As for building a replacement for the Nextel network before the 2010 deadline, it just ain't gonna happen. Combine this with the on going litigation and I'd consider Nextel to be a huge liability to Sprint now. The question is can they wash their hands of the iDEN side without carrying any legal or financial burden into the future.

[Dan]

You're getting two issue mixed together. And there would be zero down time. In order to migrate the SMR carriers, they will be supplying new subscriber units and a parallel backbone - so yes, it would be the flip of a switch. In fact, they could even operate in tandem if they chose too...

As for building a replacement for the Nextel network before the 2010 deadline, it just ain't gonna happen. Combine this with the on going litigation and I'd consider Nextel to be a huge liability to Sprint now. The question is can they wash their hands of the iDEN side without carrying any legal or financial burden into the future.

You realize that some of those frequencies were used by emergency workers (police, fire, ambulance) and the interference with those communications were why the transition was mandated. So, you can't just flip a switch and put their communication devices on a new frequency. Some radios may have to replaced, or simply can just tune in a new frequency. Based on that situation, you cant just flip a switch.

Also, remember that even on simple "flip of the switch" situations, sprint can not force them onto a new frequency. The FCC can look at the reasons why sprint was unable to transition in certain areas and go after other agencies that contribute to the delay. If it was a TV or radio station, they may face fines for being unwilling to assist in the mandated transition in a timely manner. If it is an emergency agency, they may get the FCC letter informing them of the FCC's determination of a "date certain" that they will fully comply with sprint on.

So, don't blame sprint fully for the delay. If my company caused sprint to miss its deadline, its not sprint's fault. If sprint had full access to complete the transition and just failed to do so, then its sprint's fault.

:wavey:

[JackG058]

Could this thread's topic be part of the reason behind the market rumors about Sprint spinning off Nextel?

http://www.reuters.com/article/innovationNews/idUSWEN545920080505

[PowerCell]

You realize that some of those frequencies were used by emergency workers (police, fire, ambulance) and the interference with those communications were why the transition was mandated.

Nextel's continue use of hybrid combiners has always been the cause of this nearband interferrence. So again, their would be zero down time for anyone involved.

[Dan]

Nextel's continue use of hybrid combiners has always been the cause of this nearband interferrence. So again, their would be zero down time for anyone involved.

OK. Say my local police department has its own service on a frequency that nextel is supposed to get. The wireless connections in the patrol car's are tuned to the frequency that they have currently, and they are not able to simply tune to another frequency.

So, the police agency needs to have all the patrol cars taken out of service, perhaps one at a time, to have updates done to the patrol car computers. The same would be true of police 2 way radios that may need to be updated or replaced to handle this transition. Nextel (sprint) would have to install radios that used the current frequencies as well as the new ones so a seamless transition could take place. This takes time, and the agency may do things trying to get compensation from sprint for having the patrol car out of service, plus cash compensation for any overtime of the department IT dept (as many have a PBA and can demand to be there when sprint is working on this transition.)

The same would hold true of a news agency like a local TV station that may try and get a new news van out of sprint so they do not have any down time while one is being updated.

Simply, its not all sprint's fault, or sprints poor management. You can't force anyone to let you into their company (for private companies) or department (for public emergency agencies) to make the transition. The FCC will probably look into the reasons why sprint was unable to reach the targeted date and see if the fault lies with sprint or the companies and agencies in the area. If it lies with sprint, fines may be imposed. If it lies with private companies, they may be fined, or lose the rights to use their current frequencies. If its a public agency, the FCC will probably stipulate a mediation for the terms of the transition.

[kupikunskio]

...our phones only use towers to pass along signals, it all orginates from satellites which is sent to towers,so its not like the power outage is wha completely crippled all networks..its the fact that almost every cell user tried to use their phones at once...

:laughing:...
Your phone uses satellites? Mine doesn't.

I :luv: this thread, oh wait... :frustrate No I don't.

Dan, Thanks for being a beacon or reality in this thread.

[Godmera]

DONE l

[PowerCell]

OK. Say my local police department has its own service on a frequency that nextel is supposed to get...

Nextel isn't getting migrated too SMR freqs, they're being transitioned away.

Dan, I appreciate that you're trying to figure out how this is done, but you're way over thinking it. It's just not difficult to migrate an SMR user - it's just expensive and Sprint seems to be ignoring the obligations that came with the Nextel aquisition.

[Quill]

I'll say this once. Play nicely. And by the way, insulting mods is never wise, and insulting people you know nothing about doesn't get your point across. So, leave the ad hominem attacks in the cut and paste board on your computer.

Thank you.

[kupikunskio]

I'll say this once. Play nicely. And by the way, insulting mods is never wise, and insulting people you know nothing about doesn't get your point across. So, leave the ad hominem attacks in the cut and paste board on your computer.

Thank you.

Why did you delete me? I was being nice.

[Quill]

Why did you delete me? I was being nice.

To prevent further flaming and keep things on topic. :)

[kupikunskio]

To prevent further flaming and keep things on topic. :)

Okay. That makes sense. Sorry to step on your toes.

[Dan]

I'll say this once. Play nicely. And by the way, insulting mods is never wise, and insulting people you know nothing about doesn't get your point across. So, leave the ad hominem attacks in the cut and paste board on your computer.

Thank you.

Smart to have edited his post, TY :) It's amazing how people will attack when they can't have a friendly debate.

[youngmoore]

So lets say all this is written in stone for the 26" is the cut off date. Is sprint ready to push their Q-chat phones out before this happens? And are they going to be giving Nextel people big discounts on phones? It would seem pretty dumb for them to be selling even hybrid phones with this looming over them. The other Q I had is if sprint gets the swap over in time will those headsets work "PTT" on the freqs without any user interaction?

ym

[Dan]

So lets say all this is written in stone for the 26" is the cut off date. Is sprint ready to push their Q-chat phones out before this happens? And are they going to be giving Nextel people big discounts on phones? It would seem pretty dumb for them to be selling even hybrid phones with this looming over them. The other Q I had is if sprint gets the swap over in time will those headsets work "PTT" on the freqs without any user interaction?

ym

The PTT network has lost a ton of customers, and others have gone from straight iDEN to hybrid customers. The effect of the 6/26 date may be felt in certain areas, but will be minimal IMO. The iDEN network is probably operating at 50% of its general capacity now, so losing some of the frequencies for a short time wont have the same effect as it would have a couple years ago.

:wavey:

[youngmoore]

Wow didn't know that the loss was that bad. Everyone pretty much I know here in ATL has Nextel/sprint. Either straight nextel phones or Hybrids. So awnser me this. If Sprint switches the freqs from 800 to something else for those nextel PTT clients are those Nextel phones able to switch or are they hard coded to 800mhz requiring new phones?
Thanks again Dan.
ym

[Dan]

Wow didn't know that the loss was that bad. Everyone pretty much I know here in ATL has Nextel/sprint. Either straight nextel phones or Hybrids. So awnser me this. If Sprint switches the freqs from 800 to something else for those nextel PTT clients are those Nextel phones able to switch or are they hard coded to 800mhz requiring new phones?
Thanks again Dan.
ym

Though I am not 100% sure, I believe the nextel phones can use the existing bands that nextel had, as well as the new bands of operation.

So, simply for the nextel subscriber you just switch the bands of operation from one set of frequencies to another set of frequencies.

Some articles on the rebranding:

http://telephonyonline.com/wireless/print/telecom_nextel_seeks_fix/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nextel

This one deals with what bands of operation Nextel has originally, what they moved to in phase one and what they end up with after the migrations are complete.

Interference with police and fire radios
Nextel's systems in U.S. cities have been linked to significant problems affecting municipal government trunked and conventional 800 MHz two-way radio systems. These problems were costly to address and technically difficult to resolve.

Federal Communications Commission precedent called for the party causing interference to solve the problem. The interference stems from Nextel's buy-out of private analog FM two-way radio systems. To expand capacity of their digital iDEN systems the company purchased private commercial two-way systems from small companies in cities nationwide. After purchase the analog equipment was removed and replaced with Nextel's digital trunked system transmitters or "EBTS." In some cases these new transmitters were configured in ways that caused interference to existing systems–including police and fire systems. The irony is that many public services use the Nextel system. This interference is difficult to filter out because the original spectrum plan for the 800 MHz band interleaved business, public safety, and commercial mobile radio systems on adjacent channels.

To resolve these problems, Nextel and the Federal Communications Commission developed a plan, approved by the FCC in August of 2004 to relocate systems on certain 800 MHz frequencies to elsewhere in the 800 MHz band in order to reduce the potential for interference. Specifically, systems on the 806-809/851-854 MHz band will initially swap with Nextel frequencies in the 809-814/854-859 MHz band, leaving Nextel the only user in 806-809/851-854 MHz. Then the Nextel use of the 806-809/851-854 MHz band will be swapped with the national public safety use of the 821-824/866-869 MHz band, leaving Nextel with contiguous spectrum in 817-824/862-869 MHz and the business and public safety users in contiguous spectrum at 806-817/851-862 MHz. The use of contiguous spectrum allows for simple filters to be installed to protect the public safety radio systems from interference, which is currently impossible under the existing channelization of the 800 MHz band. Nextel is paying for much of the cost of this reconfiguration, but in compensation for "lost" 800 MHz spectrum is receiving spectrum in the 2 GHz band at 1910-1915/1990-1995 MHz. The 2 GHz spectrum is near the existing Sprint PCS allocations and can be used to expand the number of channels available for that service, without needing to bid for that additional capacity in a spectrum auction.


So, suggesting that you can simply flip a switch and make the transition without cooperation from other people is insane.

[youngmoore]

Dan,
I don't I ever said anything about "just" flipping a switch. Hence my Q if normal Nextel and powersource phones would be able to migrate to the new freqs etc for PTT etc. Since I know next to nothing about the Cell freqs etc and the fact I have been considering either getting a Nextel phone or waiting for Q-chat and a airave when it comes out everything has to be considered etc.
Thanks for the FCC info
ym

[kupikunskio]

Dan,
I don't I ever said anything about "just" flipping a switch. Hence my Q if normal Nextel and powersource phones would be able to migrate to the new freqs etc for PTT etc. Since I know next to nothing about the Cell freqs etc and the fact I have been considering either getting a Nextel phone or waiting for Q-chat and a airave when it comes out everything has to be considered etc.
Thanks for the FCC info
ym

It wasn't directed towards you. No worries.

[youngmoore]

kool, cheers.
ym

[Dan]

Dan,
I don't I ever said anything about "just" flipping a switch. Hence my Q if normal Nextel and powersource phones would be able to migrate to the new freqs etc for PTT etc. Since I know next to nothing about the Cell freqs etc and the fact I have been considering either getting a Nextel phone or waiting for Q-chat and a airave when it comes out everything has to be considered etc.
Thanks for the FCC info
ym

Sorry, it wasn't directed at you. Some people seem to think that you just show up and tel private companies and governmental agencies that you are doing a switch on X date and they will just agree.

I would think any nextel device designed after the agreement on the migration would be capable of using the current, transitional and "new" iDEN frequencies.

Honestly, I'd wait on Qchat and an airave if I were you. A nextel branded phone can only operate on the iDEN network, same goes for PTT on a hybrid phone. The Qchat phone can operate on any Rev A sprint network and probably anywhere alltel has Rev A service on a roaming agreement. iDEN is being maintained and some new towers are being built, but the potential growth of the iDEN network under sprint's current plans is quite limited.

Unless your in a rush, I'd look for reviews on Qchat devices after they come out and decide if its right for you. Same goes for the 2nd generation airave device that sprint is going to release, hopefully soon after the Qchat device.

:wavey:

[youngmoore]

Thx for clearing that up Dan. On the Rev. A thing. Do you or any one else know if
Rev A is a requirement for Q-chat? I understand the lag from Rev 0 to Rev A. I have a data card so its all to apparent but I just can't see lag no matter what the network layout being that much of a issue. Hell I use Ready Link and it works just fine. I had Nextel WAY back when they lanuched in ATL and it was "o __ K" Biggest issue we had was with their cell service. Nor can I even see a DC/Q-chat using that much bandwidth or the lag being that much of a issue. Oh gog it took 1.5 secs vs .5 secs to connect to someone "big deal rolls eyes". I would think that if Rev A is a requirment and one of my co-workers cross over into a non Rev .A upgraded network of sprint that Q-chat didn't actually work would be more of a issue than waiting a sec more for Q-chat?
On the freq deal all I can say is I hope Dan your right on the phones being able to cross over to the other freq. Otherwise an outage like that would end up "forcing" what is left of DC users to bolt and this is the last thing we need at this point.

ym

[Dan]

Thx for clearing that up Dan. On the Rev. A thing. Do you or any one else know if
Rev A is a requirement for Q-chat? I understand the lag from Rev 0 to Rev A. I have a data card so its all to apparent but I just can't see lag no matter what the network layout being that much of a issue. Hell I use Ready Link and it works just fine. I had Nextel WAY back when they lanuched in ATL and it was "o __ K" Biggest issue we had was with their cell service. Nor can I even see a DC/Q-chat using that much bandwidth or the lag being that much of a issue. Oh gog it took 1.5 secs vs .5 secs to connect to someone "big deal rolls eyes". I would think that if Rev A is a requirment and one of my co-workers cross over into a non Rev .A upgraded network of sprint that Q-chat didn't actually work would be more of a issue than waiting a sec more for Q-chat?
On the freq deal all I can say is I hope Dan your right on the phones being able to cross over to the other freq. Otherwise an outage like that would end up "forcing" what is left of DC users to bolt and this is the last thing we need at this point.

ym


I believe Rev A is needed to have a good quality of voice over the PTT network. Similar to trying to run a VoIP over too low of a bandwidth, and probably for minimal lag time. Their is a discussion of the Qchat devices being a big reason why sprint was trying to get their EVDO network all Rev A upgraded in time for the release of Qchat.

On the Freqencies, It's probably nothing more to the device than to just scan for available channels and lock on. The changed frequencies would give a minimal "searching for service" when the transition took place, and then within minutes (seconds possibly) lock onto the new frequencies in use.

I wouldn't worry about 6/26 unless the FCC does the unthinkable and totally locks down the iDEN service. As the service is used by public emergency services (the same ones dealing with the interferance) it makes no sense to strip the frequencies, even on the short term.

[jedholm]

I just have to say that I really appreciate your successful efforts to keep this educational. When I first started reading this I was getting upset for the fact that people (well really just one person) were almost panicking over facts that were not facts at all. My store is in a very IDEN rich suburb of Minneapolis and all of the construction, maintenance, law enforcement, landscaper people that depend on the PTT raise several questions a day. It is usually something bitter like "I hope sprint knows that us nextel customers will raise hell the day they shut us off.. I'll never switch to them piss poor sprint phones" and it really forces me to put on the happy store manager face and not EXPLODE at them like I want to. No one is educated on this issue. No one knows the facts and they think that I am personally out to make sure that we kill IDEN. It's all rumors they hear from the media (which are also not educated about the issue)...

After thinking I was the only one that took the time to educate myself on the issues at hand, it was refreshing to see some people who share the same education. Honestly, it's pathetic, my higher-ups no nothing about this issue. I need a promotion.

Thank you Dan, youngmoore and kupikunskio for keeping it civil. And by the way, I carry two phones. ic902 and pearl (soon to be curve) and just take a wild guess and tell me which one I use more?? And I was around since the merger. I love IDEN, but I can safely say that EVDO and CDMA is the best combination in the world. I get 2.3MBits/s down at my house with my aircard. I think we all know why IDEN is not at capacity anymore... I personally convert people all the time. and no its not because I want to convert them.. its because they see the substantial gain in useful features.

[youngmoore]

Jed. no need to thank me. I'm just trying to educate myself on the issue. I think Dan pretty much summed it up for us.

ym

[kupikunskio]

... I carry two phones. ic902 and pearl (soon to be curve) and just take a wild guess and tell me which one I use more?? And I was around since the merger. I love IDEN, but I can safely say that EVDO and CDMA is the best combination in the world. I get 2.3MBits/s down at my house with my aircard. I think we all know why IDEN is not at capacity anymore... I personally convert people all the time. and no its not because I want to convert them.. its because they see the substantial gain in useful features.

Yeah I love iDEN but hey, I know it's a dead horse. The only thing is I hope Sprint keeps NEXTELish phones around, tough and indestructible ala i580. Somehow I doubt that's going to happen though.

ic902= great phone, crappy charging port location, for some reason phones that plug in anywhere other than the bottom drive me crazy, probably because they are a pain to use with car chargers with the cord sticking out the side. :irked:

Pearl= Great phone, but come next month getting smoked by the instinct.

[Dan]

Yeah I love iDEN but hey, I know it's a dead horse. The only thing is I hope Sprint keeps NEXTELish phones around, tough and indestructible ala i580. Somehow I doubt that's going to happen though.

ic902= great phone, crappy charging port location, for some reason phones that plug in anywhere other than the bottom drive me crazy, probably because they are a pain to use with car chargers with the cord sticking out the side. :irked:

Pearl= Great phone, but come next month getting smoked by the instinct.

I think you will see sprint get a couple Qchat phones that have similar features as the "construction worker quality" iDEN devices. Nextel partners kinda killed nextel around here with piss poor customer service, so sprint bought a network in this area with tons of capacity compared to the number of users. With the continued losses of iDEN customers over misinformation and poor CS / maintenance, I'd bet 6/26 will come and pass much like 1/1/2000 did.

So, I doubt the current legacy nextel customer that uses iDEN for both PTT and voice will notice much of anything, even if sprint is forced to cut down on their bandwidth (which i doubt will happen anyways!) Hopefully sprint is working with sanyo to build a mil spec Qchat device that sprint can market to construction companies, etc for a network that is growing and won't be shut down anytime in the foreseeable future :)

[celldoc]

Moderator Dan - Spot on!!

This is not the first "re-banding" deadline that has occurred over the last few years. For those in Florida that believe that Nextel never recovered from the Hurricanes from a few years ago don't realize is that they happened to hit during a similar "re-branding" deadline.

Sprint has done alot to prevent/minimize the impact to the Nextel users.
1 - Powersource/Hybrid Phones use the CDMA (Sprint) network for voice calls and voice calls will not be affected.
2 - The "offloading" of the IDEN network by customers that moved to the PowerSource and plain old CDMA phones (along with competitive carriers) has gone a long way to helping them service the existing cusotmer base with less spectrum - Think of it as a 500 room hotel that is going to lose 100 rooms to a large "and permanent" goverment convention....
3 - The new Qchat phones do not use the IDEN network AT ALL...so any customer that switches or has switched to those devices (they are available to some larger accounts already) will not be affected either...

Don't make a mountain out of a molehill...Sprint is not going to die...(not over this anyway...jk)

[celldoc]

just realized that while I was typing my post...everything I said was a repeat...so...I agree!!!then....

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