Jonathanlc2005
01-01-2007, 10:58 AM
A blackberry 8703e or a treo700WX? looking for personal and my girlfriends dad who works for the government
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View Full Version : which is a better?
Deval
01-01-2007, 12:13 PM
I have both...but I'll be honest...the BB is strictly for email/messaging...I rarely use it for voice convos since people complain they cant hear me
kvaughan
01-01-2007, 12:40 PM
The BB8703e namely because it doesn't have a camera. You can't take phones with cameras on to military bases or sensitive area. The BB doesn't have one, the Treo does.
kulnet
01-01-2007, 01:36 PM
I haven't owned the BB but I can definitely highly recommend the 700wx. I love mine. I don't know what I ever did without it.
bjork_rules
01-01-2007, 08:33 PM
The BB8703e namely because it doesn't have a camera. You can't take phones with cameras on to military bases or sensitive area. The BB doesn't have one, the Treo does.
Excellent point.
Excellent point.
Jonathanlc2005
01-01-2007, 11:09 PM
I have both...but I'll be honest...the BB is strictly for email/messaging...I rarely use it for voice convos since people complain they cant hear me
noone can hear you on the blackberry?
noone can hear you on the blackberry?
Dzalumni
01-01-2007, 11:14 PM
My dad has a blackberry and you can't enter and email address with and underscore and the reception/earpiece volume is horrible.
I have the 700wx and have good reception (I won't lie, the reception is not as good as my Sanyo 8400) and the earpiece/volume is pretty good.
I have the 700wx and have good reception (I won't lie, the reception is not as good as my Sanyo 8400) and the earpiece/volume is pretty good.
bluecoyote
01-01-2007, 11:31 PM
My Blackberry is the first phone I've owned in awhile where people actually say "Wow, your phone sounds fantastic." (Mostly people who complained about my PPC 6700.) I'm going to put it flat-out.
The Blackberry is better. It's more stable, it's faster. The only advantages the Treo has over the Blackberry are things the Blackberry does not do (camera-related.) Push Email actually works on the Blackberry with minimal drama, and while emails are being delivered to your Blackberry, you notice no lag. The entire OS is designed consistently for one-handed operation and while the screen resolutions are similar, the Blackberry is far more efficient in what it can display.
Windows Mobile (Pocket PC) is a mangled piece of poorly executed garbage. It is hands-down the worst smartphone OS out there sans perhaps the Palm OS. Is there a valid reason for a Smartphone to have a registry? Nah. Is there a valid reason to not have self-contained applications? Nah. Why is there no way to reliably quit out of an application with Pocket PC when it continuously bogs down when the memory is full? Because they tried to make it like a Blackberry, only they did it as half-assedly as possible. Because it's running a hacked-up version of the PocketPC OS, there'll be instances where you will be delayed due to the OS acting up (especially with a virtual keypad.) It can't multitask properly, it has no efficient means of navigation, and its synchronization is the worst of any smartphone operating system I have ever used.
I am thankful for a smartphone that lets me surf the full version of SprintUsers while being on AIM and switching over to map out a location for dinner- all without bogging down. No Treo can do that. The Treo is a toy, the Blackberry is a tool.
(Also, my Blackberry can display underscores for email addresses, so I'm not sure what DZ is talking about.)
The Blackberry is better. It's more stable, it's faster. The only advantages the Treo has over the Blackberry are things the Blackberry does not do (camera-related.) Push Email actually works on the Blackberry with minimal drama, and while emails are being delivered to your Blackberry, you notice no lag. The entire OS is designed consistently for one-handed operation and while the screen resolutions are similar, the Blackberry is far more efficient in what it can display.
Windows Mobile (Pocket PC) is a mangled piece of poorly executed garbage. It is hands-down the worst smartphone OS out there sans perhaps the Palm OS. Is there a valid reason for a Smartphone to have a registry? Nah. Is there a valid reason to not have self-contained applications? Nah. Why is there no way to reliably quit out of an application with Pocket PC when it continuously bogs down when the memory is full? Because they tried to make it like a Blackberry, only they did it as half-assedly as possible. Because it's running a hacked-up version of the PocketPC OS, there'll be instances where you will be delayed due to the OS acting up (especially with a virtual keypad.) It can't multitask properly, it has no efficient means of navigation, and its synchronization is the worst of any smartphone operating system I have ever used.
I am thankful for a smartphone that lets me surf the full version of SprintUsers while being on AIM and switching over to map out a location for dinner- all without bogging down. No Treo can do that. The Treo is a toy, the Blackberry is a tool.
(Also, my Blackberry can display underscores for email addresses, so I'm not sure what DZ is talking about.)
Malatesta
01-01-2007, 11:48 PM
Treo can do much more than a BB (e.g. Skype, Slingplayer, GoogleTalk/VOIP, free push email, RSS, etc.).
Plus it's cheaper per month (If you're savy, you can get PowerVision for $10 a month--$30 cheaper than BB service. At $40 a month just for data on a BB, I consider that a rip)
I suggest to do some reading at ppcgeeks.com or treocentral.com for some examples/users experiences.
From WM247 (http://www.clieuk.co.uk/News_Archive/WindowsMobileNews-archive-19-12-2006.shtml):
"In practice this means, merely a year after the introduction of Palm's first Windows Mobile device, Windows Mobile managed to displace half of PalmOS sales, and going by the posts on the popular TreoCentral forum, did this without causing much of an outcry or much complaints regarding its ease of use, functionality or performance."
It's a very solid device.
Plus it's cheaper per month (If you're savy, you can get PowerVision for $10 a month--$30 cheaper than BB service. At $40 a month just for data on a BB, I consider that a rip)
I suggest to do some reading at ppcgeeks.com or treocentral.com for some examples/users experiences.
From WM247 (http://www.clieuk.co.uk/News_Archive/WindowsMobileNews-archive-19-12-2006.shtml):
"In practice this means, merely a year after the introduction of Palm's first Windows Mobile device, Windows Mobile managed to displace half of PalmOS sales, and going by the posts on the popular TreoCentral forum, did this without causing much of an outcry or much complaints regarding its ease of use, functionality or performance."
It's a very solid device.
Deval
01-02-2007, 07:40 AM
noone can hear you on the blackberry?
on the 8703e, there is a slight sweet spot, that if you hold the phone against your shoulder, people complain they can't hear you...I'm not complaining, I love my BB though
on the 8703e, there is a slight sweet spot, that if you hold the phone against your shoulder, people complain they can't hear you...I'm not complaining, I love my BB though
bluecoyote
01-02-2007, 04:01 PM
Treo can do much more than a BB (e.g. Skype, Slingplayer, GoogleTalk/VOIP, free push email, RSS, etc.).
Plus it's cheaper per month (If you're savy, you can get PowerVision for $10 a month--$30 cheaper than BB service. At $40 a month just for data on a BB, I consider that a rip)
I suggest to do some reading at ppcgeeks.com or treocentral.com for some examples/users experiences.
From WM247 (http://www.clieuk.co.uk/News_Archive/WindowsMobileNews-archive-19-12-2006.shtml):
"In practice this means, merely a year after the introduction of Palm's first Windows Mobile device, Windows Mobile managed to displace half of PalmOS sales, and going by the posts on the popular TreoCentral forum, did this without causing much of an outcry or much complaints regarding its ease of use, functionality or performance."
It's a very solid device.
Blackberry data service is downright expensive, no doubt, but it does include unlimited EVDO data tethering to your laptop, which actually makes it half of the price of a dedicated data card, and the cost is equivalent. The Blackberry's features work unquestionably superior to those equivalent solutions in Windows Mobile. From Push Email to even the fantastic Blackberry Browser (which is faster and can display more content legibly on screen than IE Mobile) , and I have an RSS reader on my Blackberry.
While the Treo can do things such as VOIP and Slingplayer, ask yourself very quickly how important those things are, then ask yourself if they are important enough to compromise the essentials (like good real-call quality, a reliable operating system, and efficient multitasking.) Are you really going to spend ~$200.00 to watch Slingplayer, or do you care more that you can type an email, and with a button press switch over to your web browser scroll down a large web page, copy some text and switch over, and not have to worry about restarting your phone once a week? Windows Mobile does a lot of things, it just doesn't do anything well. Its Push Email is a joke next to the Blackberry's, providing you can get it to work. The web browser on the Treo 700wx bogs down (though not as badly as the PPC 6700) and is horribly cramped for the screen resolution. There's no fast way to switch between applications without a 3rd party application (none of which I found are reliable enough to be professional grade) , and unlike with WM5, the phone application isn't prone to crashing. The Blackberry does fewer things, but does them better than any other smartphone I've ever used.
Now a lot of Treo owners have had few complaints switching to Windows Mobile, but they're switching from the Palm OS, which has not seen a major update in five years. That's like switching from last place to second-to-last, and it's still behind UIQ, Symbian Series 60, Symbian Series 80, and the Blackberry OS.
Plus it's cheaper per month (If you're savy, you can get PowerVision for $10 a month--$30 cheaper than BB service. At $40 a month just for data on a BB, I consider that a rip)
I suggest to do some reading at ppcgeeks.com or treocentral.com for some examples/users experiences.
From WM247 (http://www.clieuk.co.uk/News_Archive/WindowsMobileNews-archive-19-12-2006.shtml):
"In practice this means, merely a year after the introduction of Palm's first Windows Mobile device, Windows Mobile managed to displace half of PalmOS sales, and going by the posts on the popular TreoCentral forum, did this without causing much of an outcry or much complaints regarding its ease of use, functionality or performance."
It's a very solid device.
Blackberry data service is downright expensive, no doubt, but it does include unlimited EVDO data tethering to your laptop, which actually makes it half of the price of a dedicated data card, and the cost is equivalent. The Blackberry's features work unquestionably superior to those equivalent solutions in Windows Mobile. From Push Email to even the fantastic Blackberry Browser (which is faster and can display more content legibly on screen than IE Mobile) , and I have an RSS reader on my Blackberry.
While the Treo can do things such as VOIP and Slingplayer, ask yourself very quickly how important those things are, then ask yourself if they are important enough to compromise the essentials (like good real-call quality, a reliable operating system, and efficient multitasking.) Are you really going to spend ~$200.00 to watch Slingplayer, or do you care more that you can type an email, and with a button press switch over to your web browser scroll down a large web page, copy some text and switch over, and not have to worry about restarting your phone once a week? Windows Mobile does a lot of things, it just doesn't do anything well. Its Push Email is a joke next to the Blackberry's, providing you can get it to work. The web browser on the Treo 700wx bogs down (though not as badly as the PPC 6700) and is horribly cramped for the screen resolution. There's no fast way to switch between applications without a 3rd party application (none of which I found are reliable enough to be professional grade) , and unlike with WM5, the phone application isn't prone to crashing. The Blackberry does fewer things, but does them better than any other smartphone I've ever used.
Now a lot of Treo owners have had few complaints switching to Windows Mobile, but they're switching from the Palm OS, which has not seen a major update in five years. That's like switching from last place to second-to-last, and it's still behind UIQ, Symbian Series 60, Symbian Series 80, and the Blackberry OS.
Malatesta
01-02-2007, 04:50 PM
Blackberry data service is downright expensive, no doubt, but it does include unlimited EVDO data tethering to your laptop, which actually makes it half of the price of a dedicated data card, and the cost is equivalent. The Blackberry's features work unquestionably superior to those equivalent solutions in Windows Mobile. From Push Email to even the fantastic Blackberry Browser (which is faster and can display more content legibly on screen than IE Mobile) , and I have an RSS reader on my Blackberry.
While the Treo can do things such as VOIP and Slingplayer, ask yourself very quickly how important those things are, then ask yourself if they are important enough to compromise the essentials (like good real-call quality, a reliable operating system, and efficient multitasking.) Are you really going to spend ~$200.00 to watch Slingplayer, or do you care more that you can type an email, and with a button press switch over to your web browser scroll down a large web page, copy some text and switch over, and not have to worry about restarting your phone once a week? Windows Mobile does a lot of things, it just doesn't do anything well. Its Push Email is a joke next to the Blackberry's, providing you can get it to work. The web browser on the Treo 700wx bogs down (though not as badly as the PPC 6700) and is horribly cramped for the screen resolution. There's no fast way to switch between applications without a 3rd party application (none of which I found are reliable enough to be professional grade) , and unlike with WM5, the phone application isn't prone to crashing. The Blackberry does fewer things, but does them better than any other smartphone I've ever used.
Now a lot of Treo owners have had few complaints switching to Windows Mobile, but they're switching from the Palm OS, which has not seen a major update in five years. That's like switching from last place to second-to-last, and it's still behind UIQ, Symbian Series 60, Symbian Series 80, and the Blackberry OS.
It's all relative.
Fact is I do use my Slingbox on my Treo 700wx (http://youtube.com/watch?v=LDA_Ac0T0Rg) (and other computers) quite often and it works very well with very acceptable battery drainage (about 20% per hour--which is fine on the train ride home at the end of the day).
My push is instant and flat out works with Mail2web.com and I get my emails all come from a specified email address (SMTP Proxy) for $1.99 a month. I'm not sure what else to expect for instant email: I get them faster than when my Gmail checks on my desktop (just happened as I was typing this). Plus having an OTA backup of my contacts, tasks and calender is very convenient.
I happen to also really like PIE on the 700wx. Very fast. I don't use any additions (PIE+ or MultiIE) nor do I even have Opera or Netfront installed. I do not experience bog downs and with changing the DNS servers, it's extremely fast.
I'm also not sure about the "most 700wx users are former PalmOS users". Certainly there are some but they are a finicky crowd and most do NOT like WM5 at all. I'd say from my experience most are new smartphone users or WM5 fans. We can also tether for free after purchasing PDAnet for $34.
Blackberry is forever doomed to the business/corporate market unless RIM changes their ways. WindowsMobile is directly targeting the consumer/multimedia crowd now (especially with their upcoming XBox Live integration) and will be much more prevalent amongst regular users than BB ever will.
As far as switching apps I just use AE Button Plus which is also a button remapper for $7.99. To close an app I just highlight and move my d-pad to the right. No stylus, extremely fast.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j277/malatesta77/Screen001-5.png
I and many others are quite happy with WM5 and with the plethora of devices now available, Crossbow coming out and MS's push into the consumer market, it will soon be the dominant smartphone OS in the US and the rest of the world (I do not consider Symbian much of a true smartphone OS)
While the Treo can do things such as VOIP and Slingplayer, ask yourself very quickly how important those things are, then ask yourself if they are important enough to compromise the essentials (like good real-call quality, a reliable operating system, and efficient multitasking.) Are you really going to spend ~$200.00 to watch Slingplayer, or do you care more that you can type an email, and with a button press switch over to your web browser scroll down a large web page, copy some text and switch over, and not have to worry about restarting your phone once a week? Windows Mobile does a lot of things, it just doesn't do anything well. Its Push Email is a joke next to the Blackberry's, providing you can get it to work. The web browser on the Treo 700wx bogs down (though not as badly as the PPC 6700) and is horribly cramped for the screen resolution. There's no fast way to switch between applications without a 3rd party application (none of which I found are reliable enough to be professional grade) , and unlike with WM5, the phone application isn't prone to crashing. The Blackberry does fewer things, but does them better than any other smartphone I've ever used.
Now a lot of Treo owners have had few complaints switching to Windows Mobile, but they're switching from the Palm OS, which has not seen a major update in five years. That's like switching from last place to second-to-last, and it's still behind UIQ, Symbian Series 60, Symbian Series 80, and the Blackberry OS.
It's all relative.
Fact is I do use my Slingbox on my Treo 700wx (http://youtube.com/watch?v=LDA_Ac0T0Rg) (and other computers) quite often and it works very well with very acceptable battery drainage (about 20% per hour--which is fine on the train ride home at the end of the day).
My push is instant and flat out works with Mail2web.com and I get my emails all come from a specified email address (SMTP Proxy) for $1.99 a month. I'm not sure what else to expect for instant email: I get them faster than when my Gmail checks on my desktop (just happened as I was typing this). Plus having an OTA backup of my contacts, tasks and calender is very convenient.
I happen to also really like PIE on the 700wx. Very fast. I don't use any additions (PIE+ or MultiIE) nor do I even have Opera or Netfront installed. I do not experience bog downs and with changing the DNS servers, it's extremely fast.
I'm also not sure about the "most 700wx users are former PalmOS users". Certainly there are some but they are a finicky crowd and most do NOT like WM5 at all. I'd say from my experience most are new smartphone users or WM5 fans. We can also tether for free after purchasing PDAnet for $34.
Blackberry is forever doomed to the business/corporate market unless RIM changes their ways. WindowsMobile is directly targeting the consumer/multimedia crowd now (especially with their upcoming XBox Live integration) and will be much more prevalent amongst regular users than BB ever will.
As far as switching apps I just use AE Button Plus which is also a button remapper for $7.99. To close an app I just highlight and move my d-pad to the right. No stylus, extremely fast.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j277/malatesta77/Screen001-5.png
I and many others are quite happy with WM5 and with the plethora of devices now available, Crossbow coming out and MS's push into the consumer market, it will soon be the dominant smartphone OS in the US and the rest of the world (I do not consider Symbian much of a true smartphone OS)
bluecoyote
01-02-2007, 10:39 PM
Now... Symbian Series 60 (Like the Blackberry OS) was written from the ground-up for usage with Smartphones. Windows Mobile 5 is double-reincarnation of an OS for sub-computers. Symbian Series 60's interface was created from the ground up for stylus-free usage, wheras Windows Mobile 5 has two versions, one that still requires a stylus. S60 is the number one selling smartphone OS worldwide, and in terms of applications available in comparison to its time on the market, it's #1 by a large margin. (The Blackberry OS is the #1 in the US.)
S60 is every bit as powerful as Windows Mobile if not more. The OS is even able to use Bluetooth as a hotspot connection to surf the internet (only OS I've ever seen be able to do that without any hacking) . The included web browser is considered the best mobile browser in the world (and it is.) , but it remains almost as stable as the Blackberry OS.
Here's how lame Windows Mobile is: it has a registry. It's unreliable when running applications off of an external memory card (NEVER been a problem on S60.) Windows Mobile 5 requires 3 (yes THREE) times the resources Series 60 3rd edition does just for navigation. It has a start menu. Even Mala had to purchase a 3rd party app to tweak the UI to offer the same functionality both the Blackberry OS and S60 have built in. When it's built in, chances are it works better. ActiveSync is a joke, and we all know it. I'd say the biggest example that Microsoft has no idea how to make a Smartphone OS is the fact that Windows Mobile can't self-reset when it crashes like Series 60 and the Blackberry OS do (in theory... my Blackberry has yet to crash.) Technically, your phone can lock up early in the morning and you not even know it. This is rare with the Treo, but was a major problem with my PPC-6700 (which also was running a clean install, too, go figure.)
Windows Mobile is actually not a smartphone OS- it's a PDA OS with a phone application hastily grafted onto it. It doesn't even have Java support built in! (S60 does a terrific job managing them as widget-like apps) While Palm did a fantastic job bringing out its potential, the simple truth of the matter is they're trying to complete with some exquisite silk purses with a refabricated Nylon wallet that appeals to people who are more into hacking the registries on their phone than using it as a tool.
The reason the Blackberry is going to stay #1 is that it's able to offer the power of a smartphone with none of the compromises from a regular phone. The quality of software is higher (no more wondering "Hey, why is my phone frozen?"),
S60 is every bit as powerful as Windows Mobile if not more. The OS is even able to use Bluetooth as a hotspot connection to surf the internet (only OS I've ever seen be able to do that without any hacking) . The included web browser is considered the best mobile browser in the world (and it is.) , but it remains almost as stable as the Blackberry OS.
Here's how lame Windows Mobile is: it has a registry. It's unreliable when running applications off of an external memory card (NEVER been a problem on S60.) Windows Mobile 5 requires 3 (yes THREE) times the resources Series 60 3rd edition does just for navigation. It has a start menu. Even Mala had to purchase a 3rd party app to tweak the UI to offer the same functionality both the Blackberry OS and S60 have built in. When it's built in, chances are it works better. ActiveSync is a joke, and we all know it. I'd say the biggest example that Microsoft has no idea how to make a Smartphone OS is the fact that Windows Mobile can't self-reset when it crashes like Series 60 and the Blackberry OS do (in theory... my Blackberry has yet to crash.) Technically, your phone can lock up early in the morning and you not even know it. This is rare with the Treo, but was a major problem with my PPC-6700 (which also was running a clean install, too, go figure.)
Windows Mobile is actually not a smartphone OS- it's a PDA OS with a phone application hastily grafted onto it. It doesn't even have Java support built in! (S60 does a terrific job managing them as widget-like apps) While Palm did a fantastic job bringing out its potential, the simple truth of the matter is they're trying to complete with some exquisite silk purses with a refabricated Nylon wallet that appeals to people who are more into hacking the registries on their phone than using it as a tool.
The reason the Blackberry is going to stay #1 is that it's able to offer the power of a smartphone with none of the compromises from a regular phone. The quality of software is higher (no more wondering "Hey, why is my phone frozen?"),
Malatesta
01-03-2007, 01:54 AM
What you are arguing is all opinion and relative.
I love the WM registry since it's a hacker/tweaker paradise. You can change anything in the OS you want.
Now, that begs the question...do you have to do that? No. But for the technically inclined crowd it is fun. More fun than PalmOS where you had to rely on programmers to make the change for you. The average person was too "dumb" to do it on their own.
I have never seen my Treo 700wx crash and I beta test a lot of software. I also run a lot of software off the storage card (though the 700wx has so much internal memory it's almost not important). As far as a StartMenu option that is MY preference not everyone's as clearly most people are not using SmallMenu. ActiveSync was no joy in 2003 but for most users in 2006/2007 it works quite well and Mobile ActiveSync/Exchange is amazing. If your company already has Exchange then running WinMob is a no brainer as it saves costs (compared to BB).
"Windows Mobile 5 is double-reincarnation of an OS for sub-computers"
That's over simplification and not accurate. The kernal IS based on WinCE but the rest is designed specifically for "smartphone use" (people can read more Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_ce#Relationship_to_Windows_Mobile.2C_Pocke t_PC.2C_and_SmartPhone))
Is WM5 perfect? Heck no. But the progress that has been made from AKU 0 (build 14343) till AKU 3.3 (build 15671) all the way up to "Crossbow" within 18 months has been tremendous and demonstrates MS's commitment to the platform. I would also venture to say that post AKU 2.5 a stylus is no longer needed (not even for selecting mail folders) and their development team has been fairly responsive to user requests (see their "team blog" (http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/)) which is more than I can say for most other OSs.
And although Blackberry IS good at what it does (I have never denied as much) it is stil primarily a business product not geared (nor sold) to the masses. That is starting to change with some MM capabilities from their latest release but they simply do not command the same market as WM, PalmOS or Symbian and probably never will:
The following smartphones were top-selling in Q3 2006, according to NPD Group:
1. Motorola Q (WM5 smartphone)
2. Palm Treo 650
3. Verizon Wireless XV6700 (WM5 ppc)
4. Palm Treo 700p
5. BlackBerry 8700
In 2005, LinuxDevices published actual sales numbers for smartphones in Q1 2005 [4] from Gartner. These ranked Symbian with 76.2% of the smartphone market, Linux with 13.7%, Palm OS with 4.6%, and Windows Mobile with 4.5% and RIM 1%.
About 90 percent of RIM Blackberry sales are in the enterprise, where mostly senior executives have used it to access e-mail from corporate servers (source (http://www.techweb.com/wire/mobile/162101554))
"BlackBerry is being squeezed from all sides. New options are giving customers unprecedented choices" (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2006/02/06/BUGG4H2GG91.DTL&type=business)
You seem to be arguing your preference/experience over the majority of users and trends. I have no need to convince you that WM5 is actually an "ok" OS that is constantly getting better but clearly the market has spoken on this issue and BB is going to remain a niche market device and Symbian will loose market share as it is very hard to develop software for (see Skype and Slingmedia who have said as much) or rather:
This points straight at Symbian's major problem: Developer support. From the very beginning, the Symbian platform has been difficut to impossible to understand, let alone develop for. It takes experienced C++ developers tons of time to even understand the strange way that the Symbian OS works, let alone get to any level of expertise. It also requires a Windows development box and usually a not-for-free IDE to manage the code as well. Then, when developers run into problems, they must navigate a myriad of different sources for answers, including Symbian.com, Nokia, carrier websites, etc. On top of this, someone, somewhere forgot to tell Symbian that the "User Interface Is the OS". Thinking that Series 60 is the same as UIQ or Series 90 is like saying that developing for FreeBSD is the same as developing for Linux and Mac OSX. This puts a lot more pressure on developers as they have to choose between platforms - and though most would prefer the bigger screen and power of a Sony Ericsson device running UIQ, Nokia's OS is selling so many more units that they'd be foolish to develop for any thing but that. Finally, once a Symbian app is developed, the path to market is hardly paved at all right now. I don't know of many carriers that have Over The Air access to Symbian applications. I could be wrong about this, but if there are any, the numbers are really, really low. All of this bubbles up to the top, making decisions to base apps on Symbian a more expensive and risky operation for companies, and most aren't willing to take that chance. (source (http://www.russellbeattie.com/notebook/1008610.html))
and HERE is a good comparison between the S60 and Windows Mobile, imo:
THOUGHT: Symbian S60 vs. Microsoft Windows Mobile Smartphone (http://www.theunwired.net/?itemid=3440)
I love the WM registry since it's a hacker/tweaker paradise. You can change anything in the OS you want.
Now, that begs the question...do you have to do that? No. But for the technically inclined crowd it is fun. More fun than PalmOS where you had to rely on programmers to make the change for you. The average person was too "dumb" to do it on their own.
I have never seen my Treo 700wx crash and I beta test a lot of software. I also run a lot of software off the storage card (though the 700wx has so much internal memory it's almost not important). As far as a StartMenu option that is MY preference not everyone's as clearly most people are not using SmallMenu. ActiveSync was no joy in 2003 but for most users in 2006/2007 it works quite well and Mobile ActiveSync/Exchange is amazing. If your company already has Exchange then running WinMob is a no brainer as it saves costs (compared to BB).
"Windows Mobile 5 is double-reincarnation of an OS for sub-computers"
That's over simplification and not accurate. The kernal IS based on WinCE but the rest is designed specifically for "smartphone use" (people can read more Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_ce#Relationship_to_Windows_Mobile.2C_Pocke t_PC.2C_and_SmartPhone))
Is WM5 perfect? Heck no. But the progress that has been made from AKU 0 (build 14343) till AKU 3.3 (build 15671) all the way up to "Crossbow" within 18 months has been tremendous and demonstrates MS's commitment to the platform. I would also venture to say that post AKU 2.5 a stylus is no longer needed (not even for selecting mail folders) and their development team has been fairly responsive to user requests (see their "team blog" (http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/)) which is more than I can say for most other OSs.
And although Blackberry IS good at what it does (I have never denied as much) it is stil primarily a business product not geared (nor sold) to the masses. That is starting to change with some MM capabilities from their latest release but they simply do not command the same market as WM, PalmOS or Symbian and probably never will:
The following smartphones were top-selling in Q3 2006, according to NPD Group:
1. Motorola Q (WM5 smartphone)
2. Palm Treo 650
3. Verizon Wireless XV6700 (WM5 ppc)
4. Palm Treo 700p
5. BlackBerry 8700
In 2005, LinuxDevices published actual sales numbers for smartphones in Q1 2005 [4] from Gartner. These ranked Symbian with 76.2% of the smartphone market, Linux with 13.7%, Palm OS with 4.6%, and Windows Mobile with 4.5% and RIM 1%.
About 90 percent of RIM Blackberry sales are in the enterprise, where mostly senior executives have used it to access e-mail from corporate servers (source (http://www.techweb.com/wire/mobile/162101554))
"BlackBerry is being squeezed from all sides. New options are giving customers unprecedented choices" (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2006/02/06/BUGG4H2GG91.DTL&type=business)
You seem to be arguing your preference/experience over the majority of users and trends. I have no need to convince you that WM5 is actually an "ok" OS that is constantly getting better but clearly the market has spoken on this issue and BB is going to remain a niche market device and Symbian will loose market share as it is very hard to develop software for (see Skype and Slingmedia who have said as much) or rather:
This points straight at Symbian's major problem: Developer support. From the very beginning, the Symbian platform has been difficut to impossible to understand, let alone develop for. It takes experienced C++ developers tons of time to even understand the strange way that the Symbian OS works, let alone get to any level of expertise. It also requires a Windows development box and usually a not-for-free IDE to manage the code as well. Then, when developers run into problems, they must navigate a myriad of different sources for answers, including Symbian.com, Nokia, carrier websites, etc. On top of this, someone, somewhere forgot to tell Symbian that the "User Interface Is the OS". Thinking that Series 60 is the same as UIQ or Series 90 is like saying that developing for FreeBSD is the same as developing for Linux and Mac OSX. This puts a lot more pressure on developers as they have to choose between platforms - and though most would prefer the bigger screen and power of a Sony Ericsson device running UIQ, Nokia's OS is selling so many more units that they'd be foolish to develop for any thing but that. Finally, once a Symbian app is developed, the path to market is hardly paved at all right now. I don't know of many carriers that have Over The Air access to Symbian applications. I could be wrong about this, but if there are any, the numbers are really, really low. All of this bubbles up to the top, making decisions to base apps on Symbian a more expensive and risky operation for companies, and most aren't willing to take that chance. (source (http://www.russellbeattie.com/notebook/1008610.html))
and HERE is a good comparison between the S60 and Windows Mobile, imo:
THOUGHT: Symbian S60 vs. Microsoft Windows Mobile Smartphone (http://www.theunwired.net/?itemid=3440)
Deval
01-03-2007, 06:48 AM
I dont know about you, but the BB web browser sucks monkey compared to pocket IE or Opera.
bjork_rules
01-03-2007, 10:31 AM
You might want to look into the Treo 650. It can do Blackberry Connect, can do simple multitasking like emails, chat and music in the background and can be purchased without a camera. You can also tether for free, though at 1xRTT speeds. With some simple ROM modifying it's much more reliable than a 700wx, plus it can do A2DP and AVRCP and handle SDHC memory cards up to 32GB (no WM5 or BB device can make that claim). It will also have much better battery life than the 700wx or BB8703e. You can also use the Sprint homepage and links through Blazer, unlike the others.
The one area where it will be worse than the others is data speed (not important if only emailing) and bluetooth. BT is only 1.1 on the 650 and isn't as good as the 1.2 on the 700wx or 2.0 on the BB.
The one area where it will be worse than the others is data speed (not important if only emailing) and bluetooth. BT is only 1.1 on the 650 and isn't as good as the 1.2 on the 700wx or 2.0 on the BB.
Deval
01-03-2007, 10:57 AM
You might want to look into the Treo 650. It can do Blackberry Connect, can do simple multitasking like emails, chat and music in the background and can be purchased without a camera. You can also tether for free, though at 1xRTT speeds. With some simple ROM modifying it's much more reliable than a 700wx, plus it can do A2DP and AVRCP and handle SDHC memory cards up to 32GB (no WM5 or BB device can make that claim). It will also have much better battery life than the 700wx or BB8703e. You can also use the Sprint homepage and links through Blazer, unlike the others.
The one area where it will be worse than the others is data speed (not important if only emailing) and bluetooth. BT is only 1.1 on the 650 and isn't as good as the 1.2 on the 700wx or 2.0 on the BB.
since you mentioned a2dp on the 650...how can I get a2dp on a 700p?
The one area where it will be worse than the others is data speed (not important if only emailing) and bluetooth. BT is only 1.1 on the 650 and isn't as good as the 1.2 on the 700wx or 2.0 on the BB.
since you mentioned a2dp on the 650...how can I get a2dp on a 700p?
thablkpanda
01-18-2007, 07:22 PM
What you are arguing is all opinion and relative.
I love the WM registry since it's a hacker/tweaker paradise. You can change anything in the OS you want.
Now, that begs the question...do you have to do that? No. But for the technically inclined crowd it is fun. More fun than PalmOS where you had to rely on programmers to make the change for you. The average person was too "dumb" to do it on their own.
I have never seen my Treo 700wx crash and I beta test a lot of software. I also run a lot of software off the storage card (though the 700wx has so much internal memory it's almost not important). As far as a StartMenu option that is MY preference not everyone's as clearly most people are not using SmallMenu. ActiveSync was no joy in 2003 but for most users in 2006/2007 it works quite well and Mobile ActiveSync/Exchange is amazing. If your company already has Exchange then running WinMob is a no brainer as it saves costs (compared to BB).
"Windows Mobile 5 is double-reincarnation of an OS for sub-computers"
That's over simplification and not accurate. The kernal IS based on WinCE but the rest is designed specifically for "smartphone use" (people can read more Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_ce#Relationship_to_Windows_Mobile.2C_Pocke t_PC.2C_and_SmartPhone))
Is WM5 perfect? Heck no. But the progress that has been made from AKU 0 (build 14343) till AKU 3.3 (build 15671) all the way up to "Crossbow" within 18 months has been tremendous and demonstrates MS's commitment to the platform. I would also venture to say that post AKU 2.5 a stylus is no longer needed (not even for selecting mail folders) and their development team has been fairly responsive to user requests (see their "team blog" (http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/)) which is more than I can say for most other OSs.
And although Blackberry IS good at what it does (I have never denied as much) it is stil primarily a business product not geared (nor sold) to the masses. That is starting to change with some MM capabilities from their latest release but they simply do not command the same market as WM, PalmOS or Symbian and probably never will:
(source (http://www.techweb.com/wire/mobile/162101554))
"BlackBerry is being squeezed from all sides. New options are giving customers unprecedented choices" (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2006/02/06/BUGG4H2GG91.DTL&type=business)
You seem to be arguing your preference/experience over the majority of users and trends. I have no need to convince you that WM5 is actually an "ok" OS that is constantly getting better but clearly the market has spoken on this issue and BB is going to remain a niche market device and Symbian will loose market share as it is very hard to develop software for (see Skype and Slingmedia who have said as much) or rather:
(source (http://www.russellbeattie.com/notebook/1008610.html))
and HERE is a good comparison between the S60 and Windows Mobile, imo:
THOUGHT: Symbian S60 vs. Microsoft Windows Mobile Smartphone (http://www.theunwired.net/?itemid=3440)
What you're arguing is highly relative as well.
I've never used a device purely because everyone else does. I'm dedicated my MacBook because it does what it's suppposed to do. It does it right, and it doesn't BS around. If I have to, I can pull up Winblows on the other end, no big deal.
Granted, the 8703e isn't perfect. Neither is any device, really. But when you stretch yourself too thin (Treo 700wx) you end up with not enough of anything. I've run WM5 devices for a VERY long time. Being a medium-sized business owner; I require constant connectivity with everyone (field workers, supervisors, secretary, etc.). I like to be a hands-on boss, which means most of my time is spent behind the wheel, and in the field. While this is great in theory- it means I have to stay connected in the field as well.
I've blown through WM5 devices like the plague. I don't recall where I started, but I've been down them ALL. My most recent (horribly failed) WM5 escapade was the '6700. A pure piece of garbage. Honestly. I'd expect a powerful device to work well. I failed to remember that it all depends on the software (OS) it's running. A high-powered computer can be worthless if it runs a terrible operating system. Same goes for your handheld. My '6700 would lock up on me constantly, removing it from my pocket and pressing any button would require a soft reset, due to an immediate lock-up. It was likely the worst month EVER. Constantly missing calls due to the sluggish OS, and the terrible browser. Granted, it had WiFi. So I gotta give you some points there.
A couple of my employees used BlackBerries, so I finally made the switch. I'll tell you- If I go back, I want someone to beat me with a bricked '6700 until I remember my troubles.
The BlackBerry does what it's supposed to. Well. Again, it DOES what it's SUPPOSED to. Well.
The Treo 700wx (which I did use) Tries to do a lot of things, and succeeds on a few, but it fails abysmally (like all WM devices are plauged to do) on quite a few.
My device is the epitome of multi-tasking. If I need to browse something far too large for my BB to handle, I'll tether up to my MacBook and get EVDO speed- no worries.
I get e-mail as soon as it's sent. Right out of the box. I don't go to mail2web and sign up through a third party. That's another link in the chain that could fail- and I can't rely on that. I open the box, and I can essentially start sending and recieving e-mail immediately. No wait, none of that.
Battery life, something my BB comrade failed to capitalize on. I had 3 batteries for my '6700, not including the original OEM. 2 extended and 2 normal capacity. I kept one in my office charging, one went with me to the car, one at the house. I had to- because the battery lasted MAYBE 6 hours on end. I work at least 16 hour days (work- not 'play'. I'm at the office or in the field for 16 hours out of each day) about 6.5 days a week. I can't have a 6 hour battery life. And that was with LIGHT usage.
Sorry, when you're serious about being connected on-the-go, the BlackBerry is the only way to fly. If you want to have 'flexibility' to install NUMEROUS third-party tools just to get similar functionality of a BlackBerry, be my guest.
Now, I can't just rave on the BB. I'll tell you- some third party apps of WM5 are very useful, and I wish I could have them on my BB. Also, I liked to stream MSNBC from the office (Slingbox'd) to my Treo wx- can't do that anymore. I have a Java-Based application for my BB that streams my stock quotes, and a 7" addon screen for my iPod Video that I was able to purchase with the extra money I made via being 'always on' with my new BlackBerry in the first month. The thing pays for itself. If you are reliant on e-mail for a primary connectivity source, BBs are the only way to go. If you'd rather call someone, text someone, leave them a voicemail, play phone tag for a bit- then finally resort to sending e-mail, then you're right, you're better off with a Treo or any other device.
Chris' opinion.
I love the WM registry since it's a hacker/tweaker paradise. You can change anything in the OS you want.
Now, that begs the question...do you have to do that? No. But for the technically inclined crowd it is fun. More fun than PalmOS where you had to rely on programmers to make the change for you. The average person was too "dumb" to do it on their own.
I have never seen my Treo 700wx crash and I beta test a lot of software. I also run a lot of software off the storage card (though the 700wx has so much internal memory it's almost not important). As far as a StartMenu option that is MY preference not everyone's as clearly most people are not using SmallMenu. ActiveSync was no joy in 2003 but for most users in 2006/2007 it works quite well and Mobile ActiveSync/Exchange is amazing. If your company already has Exchange then running WinMob is a no brainer as it saves costs (compared to BB).
"Windows Mobile 5 is double-reincarnation of an OS for sub-computers"
That's over simplification and not accurate. The kernal IS based on WinCE but the rest is designed specifically for "smartphone use" (people can read more Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_ce#Relationship_to_Windows_Mobile.2C_Pocke t_PC.2C_and_SmartPhone))
Is WM5 perfect? Heck no. But the progress that has been made from AKU 0 (build 14343) till AKU 3.3 (build 15671) all the way up to "Crossbow" within 18 months has been tremendous and demonstrates MS's commitment to the platform. I would also venture to say that post AKU 2.5 a stylus is no longer needed (not even for selecting mail folders) and their development team has been fairly responsive to user requests (see their "team blog" (http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/)) which is more than I can say for most other OSs.
And although Blackberry IS good at what it does (I have never denied as much) it is stil primarily a business product not geared (nor sold) to the masses. That is starting to change with some MM capabilities from their latest release but they simply do not command the same market as WM, PalmOS or Symbian and probably never will:
(source (http://www.techweb.com/wire/mobile/162101554))
"BlackBerry is being squeezed from all sides. New options are giving customers unprecedented choices" (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2006/02/06/BUGG4H2GG91.DTL&type=business)
You seem to be arguing your preference/experience over the majority of users and trends. I have no need to convince you that WM5 is actually an "ok" OS that is constantly getting better but clearly the market has spoken on this issue and BB is going to remain a niche market device and Symbian will loose market share as it is very hard to develop software for (see Skype and Slingmedia who have said as much) or rather:
(source (http://www.russellbeattie.com/notebook/1008610.html))
and HERE is a good comparison between the S60 and Windows Mobile, imo:
THOUGHT: Symbian S60 vs. Microsoft Windows Mobile Smartphone (http://www.theunwired.net/?itemid=3440)
What you're arguing is highly relative as well.
I've never used a device purely because everyone else does. I'm dedicated my MacBook because it does what it's suppposed to do. It does it right, and it doesn't BS around. If I have to, I can pull up Winblows on the other end, no big deal.
Granted, the 8703e isn't perfect. Neither is any device, really. But when you stretch yourself too thin (Treo 700wx) you end up with not enough of anything. I've run WM5 devices for a VERY long time. Being a medium-sized business owner; I require constant connectivity with everyone (field workers, supervisors, secretary, etc.). I like to be a hands-on boss, which means most of my time is spent behind the wheel, and in the field. While this is great in theory- it means I have to stay connected in the field as well.
I've blown through WM5 devices like the plague. I don't recall where I started, but I've been down them ALL. My most recent (horribly failed) WM5 escapade was the '6700. A pure piece of garbage. Honestly. I'd expect a powerful device to work well. I failed to remember that it all depends on the software (OS) it's running. A high-powered computer can be worthless if it runs a terrible operating system. Same goes for your handheld. My '6700 would lock up on me constantly, removing it from my pocket and pressing any button would require a soft reset, due to an immediate lock-up. It was likely the worst month EVER. Constantly missing calls due to the sluggish OS, and the terrible browser. Granted, it had WiFi. So I gotta give you some points there.
A couple of my employees used BlackBerries, so I finally made the switch. I'll tell you- If I go back, I want someone to beat me with a bricked '6700 until I remember my troubles.
The BlackBerry does what it's supposed to. Well. Again, it DOES what it's SUPPOSED to. Well.
The Treo 700wx (which I did use) Tries to do a lot of things, and succeeds on a few, but it fails abysmally (like all WM devices are plauged to do) on quite a few.
My device is the epitome of multi-tasking. If I need to browse something far too large for my BB to handle, I'll tether up to my MacBook and get EVDO speed- no worries.
I get e-mail as soon as it's sent. Right out of the box. I don't go to mail2web and sign up through a third party. That's another link in the chain that could fail- and I can't rely on that. I open the box, and I can essentially start sending and recieving e-mail immediately. No wait, none of that.
Battery life, something my BB comrade failed to capitalize on. I had 3 batteries for my '6700, not including the original OEM. 2 extended and 2 normal capacity. I kept one in my office charging, one went with me to the car, one at the house. I had to- because the battery lasted MAYBE 6 hours on end. I work at least 16 hour days (work- not 'play'. I'm at the office or in the field for 16 hours out of each day) about 6.5 days a week. I can't have a 6 hour battery life. And that was with LIGHT usage.
Sorry, when you're serious about being connected on-the-go, the BlackBerry is the only way to fly. If you want to have 'flexibility' to install NUMEROUS third-party tools just to get similar functionality of a BlackBerry, be my guest.
Now, I can't just rave on the BB. I'll tell you- some third party apps of WM5 are very useful, and I wish I could have them on my BB. Also, I liked to stream MSNBC from the office (Slingbox'd) to my Treo wx- can't do that anymore. I have a Java-Based application for my BB that streams my stock quotes, and a 7" addon screen for my iPod Video that I was able to purchase with the extra money I made via being 'always on' with my new BlackBerry in the first month. The thing pays for itself. If you are reliant on e-mail for a primary connectivity source, BBs are the only way to go. If you'd rather call someone, text someone, leave them a voicemail, play phone tag for a bit- then finally resort to sending e-mail, then you're right, you're better off with a Treo or any other device.
Chris' opinion.
allenkt
02-12-2007, 11:01 AM
The BB8703e namely because it doesn't have a camera. You can't take phones with cameras on to military bases or sensitive area. The BB doesn't have one, the Treo does.
That's not true at all. You can take darn near anything you want on a military base as long as it's not illegal. Now it is true that you can't take cameras into a secure facility or COMSEC vault but you can't take phones into those areas either (or any recording device) so it's really a moot point.
That's not true at all. You can take darn near anything you want on a military base as long as it's not illegal. Now it is true that you can't take cameras into a secure facility or COMSEC vault but you can't take phones into those areas either (or any recording device) so it's really a moot point.
knj
02-17-2007, 08:03 PM
I am also debating between the BB8703 and the Treo 700wx. Is there a way I can get gps for the treo thats cheap. My jobs requires me to travel to different locations. I am sick of printing of directions from mapquest. Thanks.
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